Seeburg ESCH-1-4 Wallbox Problem.

Hi, guy's, Never had anything to do with wall boxes, But now I have two Seeburg Wall boxes One is a SC1 It works fine, The other is a Seeburg ESCH-1-4, Which will select any letter combination with the number 8 fine. But if you select any letter combination with numbers 1-7 it still plays the records in the number 8 section. I have checked the usual things apart from removing the button bank ,Witch looks to be a bit of a pain.. Any suggestions. Would be greatly appreciated. Harry.

Harry, if you are lucky you'll find that the first wire from number rivet at the junction of letters and numbers on the wafer has broken off.

Otherwise it will be in the keyboard switches themselves.

This is set up so that the signal line is applied to the two rivets closest to the letter-number interval. Beyond that the signal daisy-chains through the contacts in each keyboard section. When a button is pressed it disconnects the signal line from all other switches after it thus stopping the generation of pulses.

On the Consolettes, the numbers are sent first followed by letters and the train in also inverted from the older system Here 8 is the least number of pulses for numbers and V the least for letters.

Thus far i have only seen --one case-- of a broken feedthrough connection in wallbox keyboards out of close to 170 boxes I've rebuilt, however it does happen in machine keyboards and often in title drum switches on V-VL-K.

Rob-NYC

Hi, Rob, Thanks for you reply, I did check connections on the wafer, But I will check the wafer again today, as after posting my cry for help, I had another look at it last night. And it did select a couple in the lower numbers , if I manually turned the motor. but anyway I think you are right there has got to be a broken wire somewhere. will let you know if I find it. Thanks Harry.

Hi Harry,
I would guess that if you were able to make other selections by turning the wiper by hand, that the wiper itself, or the contacts on the disc may be the problem ? Perhaps "someone " applied a coating to the disc rivets, or has removed tension from the wiper ??
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Hi Rob,
The reason you see less feed thru problems with a wall box then a phono keyboard is that the wallbox keyboard is not energized when the buttons are pushed, nor when they are released--- Ron Rich

HI, Ron, I have cleaned the rivets, and adjusted the wipers. In fact I removed the apu10 the button bank etc. looking for broken wires but found none, apart from one of the latch bar setting switch wires came off during removal. anyway put it back together, still more or less the same. will select any letter with number 8 correctly. but if you select numbers 1-7 it plays an 8 or sometimes a b side in the 8s. a couple of times I shorted two contacts on latch bar switch and it selected a lower number. I'm sure it is something simple and I have missed something. But it's those simple silly things that can be a right pain, and when you have found it you feel like hitting yourself with a hammer. anyway I think I am Loosing it, tried walking through the patio doors this morning without opening them will have to tell the wife to stop cleaning the glass. Harry. Update------- Well after more mindless fiddling it will only select U8, anything else I press it plays S8, Doh! Another update.......... Back to selecting the 8s correctly, but still selecting only eights when any other numbers are pressed. It is the first time I have had anything to do with a faulty wall box. but I will get there in the end.

harry, manually turning the wiper will get random selections because you are just introducing pulses and pauses similar to the wallbox. It tells you nothing about the wallbox itself.

On background, Once the first pulse comes in from a box the first stepper wheel begins to advance and the transfer relay pulls-in. The pulses occur at approx 1/25th sec. When the latter-number interval occurs there is a period of approx 1/5th second at that point and the Transfer Relay falls out causing the next set of pulses to advance the other stepper. Once a break in the pulses longer than 1/25 sec occurs again the selection is written-in and scan is initiated.

From this slightly simplified description you can see that manually Turing the wallbox wiper will cause various inconsistencies in the pulse train and various slots will be selected.

The easiest tests are to disconnect the wallbox and attach a meter between the wallbox chassis ground and signal terminal Turn the wiper by hand and you should see a low-resistance continuity between each rivet and chassis ground. No buttons are pressed.

A 28volt bulb can be placed from the wallbox 28 volt AC source and the signal terminal to observe pulses with the box sending.

Rob

Hi, Rob, Thanks for advice. I have had a meter on the box and getting low continuity on all letter rivets and guess what, Only one number rivet. number 8. I have noticed that there is no control relay in this ESCH-1-4. But there is in the other wall box I have which is a SC1. Any reason that you know of for that. Or is that my problem. Harry

Harry, the relays in the wallbox have nothing to do with the signal line.

Early SC series used a typical electrically held 2Pole relay to turn on the speakers.

Later types used a coil & ratchet setup similar to, and operated by the machine's scan assembly.

In the early type speakers stayed on as long as the machine stayed playing continuously. In the later type speakers turned off after the mach made two scans so your speakers would shut off after you had heard your selections but not many of any other patron's selections.

Rob

Hi, Rob, oki doki, I will remove the button bank again tomorrow and try and find out why seven of the number rivets have no continuity. I think it's going to be one of those long drawn out things checking wire's. OK, progress so far (none) still the same have not been able to find any broken wires, I have found that there is a solder tag below the button bank next to the lower motor starting switch, with two blue and white wires one goes up into the button bank the other I surmise has something to do with pricing. anyway on the faulty wall box there is continuity from this solder tag to rivets one to seven. No continuity to number eight or any of the letter rivets. Checking the other working wall box SC1I found there is continuity to all number and letter rivets from this solder tag.

HI, guys, wall box now fully working. What was wrong with it, Well it is one of those times you can not put your finger on the exact cause. I have put it down to several things. managed to get the buttons off the number row without breaking them by applying hot air. removed the button bank, which was black where I could not get at previously. cleaned all contacts with elbow grease which is great stuff for cleaning dried on grease carbon etc, using a course haired artist brush. then sprayed it with contact cleaner when dry to removed elbow grease also using the brush. Re soldered a wire on the bottom motor start switch. And re soldered a cold solder joint on the apu. anyway now fully working. Harry

Hi guys,

I realize this is an old post but I want to throw my 2 cents in. I've been analyzing the schematic for an SC1 because I'm troubleshooting one to hook up a WIPOD. If I understand it correctly I think the n/c contacts on pushbutton 7 are open. That would mean the pulses from pushbuttons 1-7 could not be counted as the contacts are scanned while cycling. I believe the n/o contacts are for pricing and the n/c contacts are for pulsing back to the stepper. Sound about right?

Jack

Hi Tinker,
Going from my great--but not too long memory, without looking at the schematic--yep, about right----Ron Rich