Pathephone Modele E - 1906-1910 (?)

I find it very very difficult to choose any one item to represent my "pride and joy" from my collection of all acoustic, mechanically motored, disc playing machines but this particular Pathe item really put the company on the map for me personally as a machine collector and has been responsible for the development of my interest in other Pathe machines and collectibles ever since.

The Pathe reproduction system using the Hill and Dale approach (vertically recorded) gives superior reproduction to the more conventional lateral discs. This machine also represented the top-of-the-range from the original Pathe range of disc players first intro'd in 1906. Pathe had been a maker of cylinder machines prior to this.

I particularly like the loose lid which is a feature unique to Pathe machines but prevents the turntable getting dusty when not in use (it also makes cleaning far easier!).

The motor is unmarked but I think it was made by Paillard (can anyone confirm this?) and although only one spring barrel, it was the biggest and most powerful motor the company used at the time. It will easily play both sides of an 11" disc at speeds up to 100rpm on one winding.

The horn is the original and correct one and has always belonged to this machine - it has not been repainted and is therefore remarkably well preserved. It is 60cm diameter. The soundbox showing in the picture is an all aluminium Concert type and not the one originally put on the machine. I do have the original soundbox which came complete in the original box and it is a slightly smaller diameter ebonite backed type. I prefer to use the Concert which whilst isn't historically accurate, nevertheless represents the finest soundbox you can put on this, arguably the finest Pathe disc machine, and it sounds awesome. I which my HMV machines sounded this good. The case is 100% original and has never been touched up, restored, repolished etc. Even the turntable felt is the original and it is near mint condition. I guess, I might be able to answer why (at this particular time) this machine is one of my absolute favourites!

Please don't ask me to sell it - it's not for sale, sorry!

Steve

PS - please click on images to enlarge!

Astonishing!! It is in amazing condition.

I have never seen such a beautiful machine! You are so lucky to have this museum quality machine in your collection. Many thanks for sharing such a treasure!

Hi Steve,

What an amazing piece of machinery! It's absolutely beautiful. It looks like it's been stored in a time capsule. I really like the contrast of the base with the rest of the cabinet, and what a great idea that lid is.
Every open horn machine should have one
The french really knew how to do it with style.

Thanks Shane, Bob and Fletch!

A couple of points to note - I agree with Shane regarding the design and flair that (Pathe particularly) European continental machines seem to have on the better models. By comparison, English machines were fairly bland and conservative. I really like the back-bracket design on this model with all the scrolls but has anyone noticed the peculiar lid design? I'm not certain the photos show it to its best but the centre of the lid is actually domed as well as being of serpentine shape with quarter veneer panels. It's almost as though they were trying to excel themselves with this one component part! Lovely design, elegant and luxurious. It's almost laughable that the underside of the lid is left unfinished!!!!! You'd think they'd have at least polished it? No, I guess not. It seems it was supposed to look the "icing on the cake" when in use, but when it is removed to allow access to the turntable, all matters regarding tasteful finishing, fly out of the window - or maybe the user is never supposed to look underneath it but just place it down on a table the right way up? Huh?

There are "other" faults with this machine design which become apparent with age. The horn elbow is quite weak to support the weight of the (larger) steel horn and is often found distorted (as is this particular one). As it is now 100 years old, I think I can afford to forgive a few telltale signs of age though!

I bought this off www.ebay.fr about a year ago and it cost me the equivalent of an EMG Mark 10A horn (which I'd sold a few weeks beforehand - not the complete machine, just the horn) so the timing was (for once) for me perfect and the machine was listed in a week when another beauty was also listed (Model 12 with rare 'Pavillon Torsade' or twisted aluminium) to deflect some of the attention from this particular machine. In fact I was the under-bidder on the other machine before this so in a way, fate determined that this one would be mine. I'm actually pleased how things turned out as looking back at it now, whilst the aluminium horn is more desirable a piece, this Modele E reperesents the earlier and first range of disc players that Pathe made and the very epitome of that range. Models from the later range (1910 onwards) are more commonly found, including the Model 12 (the Model 16 was the top of the range at a staggering 475 Francs ) This example was still very pricey though although it came in below my worst expectations, thankfully. I don't think I did too badly with it.

Thanks again for all your kind comments!

Steve

Hi,

Thanks for sharing it it is a nice machine, looks mint museum quality. These Pathe's really sound great especially with that ball stylus.

Very impressive model to be sure! I am always interested in the quality of sound of various types of machines. So this is a bit off the exact topic of the specific machine.

Your mention of the quality of sound due to the recording and playback process peaked my interest. To be fair, I must say I have owned thousands of standard cut disc, but very few pathe's. I have several at the moment and the only machine capable of playing them is my large brunswick. On that playback system I have not had spectacular results, usually a weaker sounding overall performance than say a victor recording. Have you had much experience with playing them on other systems which were designed to play them? How did the sound compare?

I owned a rather long console pathe at one time which was so lackluster sounding and the cabinet rather ugly that I parted with it. I did recently see a Oak model upright, which for some reason has sat in an antique mall for at least three years with no takers. I could be tempted to want to try them again, or would the brunswick when paired with a good recording do about the same? It must be my records because I have so far never heard that elusive Pathe sound? f

Larryh

Interesting question and I'm afraid one I'm probably not best qualified to answer. I have 5 completely different Pathe machines but the one thing they do all have in common, is that, irrespective of their horn sizes they all sound brilliant and better than any HMV (Victor) machine I've had of equivalent size horn / type etc.

The tonal balance seems to me to be far superior with improved bass and less nasally, pinched sound as you might arguably get from an "off-the-peg" Exhibition soundbox. The dynamic range appears much greater (it might not be but it SOUNDS it) and is far more mellow and definitely less brash. The volume on all my machines is superior to the HMV's too.

Now, this is all using Pathe soundboxes with dedicated ball sapphire Pathe tips etc. All my soundboxes have been rebuilt by me. Okay one correction to make here, one of my Pathes is a Diffusor type with paper cone diaphragm so this cannot be rebuilt as such but even this one sounds just as good. Like lateral records, the best results are always achieved with good condition clean and non worn records. On a like for like basis I have to say Pathe's reproduction far outstrips the Victor system.

Having said all this, I have never played any Pathe records on any other non Pathe equipment so I cannot comment on your proposal.

BTW (if you hadn't already spotted my post on the "Credenza" thread on OTVMMB) I have today been listening to some jazz records on a modern setup dedicated to 78rpm. The few Pathe discs I heard were NOT exactly overwhelming so maybe there is an issue about the Pathe records being played with the designated sapphire tipped soundboxes as they were originally intended to be heard?

The Pathe records I heard were certainly not bad but they didn't sound better than the Victor/HMV / Brunswicks / Columbias, let's put it that way.

I'd be very interested to hear other peoples' comments on this.

Steve

Hi Steve

Thanks for the reply.. I do have the ball glass type needle for use on the pathe records on a non pathe machine.. I don't know if they are prone to going bad, that could be?

Would you say that the Edison disc record would be a similar match to the Pathe sound? It really gets quite subjective and a bit in the hearing of the listener I have discovered after working on my disc diaphragm for some time now..

Yesterday for company I played my large brunswick with some pop tunes from the early 20's.. I was struck by the clean sound and range. Even after knowing that the edison has a better overall depth and roundness of tone. It seems like nearly any machine if everything is just right can be most impressive, but perhaps is a slightly different way.. I would really like to hear a good quality record on a machine of yours but it seems most to the net recording, which I am not capable of, is usually rather shallow comparison to the original. I will say that some recently recorded Edisons by Francois of Paris sounded remarkable well and didn't suffer from the canned sound so often found.

I would normally agree with you that the Exhibition leaves much to be desired in toneal quality, but there are those who swear its a great reproducer. The orthophonic is another subject, where exactly is the site your refering to by letters? I will have to look at your reply to the other site.

The disc I have heard so far from pathe, due to what ever reason have not exhibited the results you have obtained. Sounds interesting however.

Larryh

Unfortunately I don't "do" YouTube so I can't ably demonstrate what I'm talking about. It is subjective anyway as you say.

The OTVMMB is the Old Time Victrola Music Message Board. Sorry I assumed that "larryh" on there was also yourself on here - sort of logical?! Is that just a coincidence then?

The sapphires can damage the record if they are chipped and have sharp edges etc but I don't believe you are really experiencing "worn point" syndrome?

I've never heard an Edison Diamond Disc machine so I can't comment on how they might compare.

BTW, it isn;t just me who says what I say about Pathe; Tim Fabrizio says the same thing over and over in his books and on his website on the infrequent occasions he sells a Pathe machine.

If you check some of my posts on here and OTVMMB you'll see that I am one of the great defenders of the trusty old Exhibition s/box. You have to rebuild them and then tweak them with careful adjustment. I'm no expert on tuning but I think all my Exhibitions (16 of them) sound fairly good with any period of music. I have subsequently rebuilt a number of EMG s/boxes on the same principle. If you don't know, EMG based their s/boxes on the Exhibition (at least initially) as the best starting point from which to progress s/box design for electrically recorded discs.

Steve

Looking forward to spend a lot of time with you and your collection (gramophones)!!!
Kindly
John46

Steve,

Your right, Not sure how I indicated that I wasn't the same.. but forgive me if I don't recall everything well anymore.. It comes with age and I have met so many people on and off the boards recently that names sort of run together.. then too if I don't interact with someone a lot, (or even if I do) then sometimes I have problems remembering details too.

Steve,

I see what happened.. I at first was not sure of those letters you posted for a board, but opened a second window and confirmed it was the same as I am on too.. I tried to change the message and eliminate that part of the letter, but somehow I see it is still in there.. Thus causing the confusion..

Larry

The French machines & soundboxes are a superior quality & sounding gramophone than their US counterparts.

Hey Steve,

You got me to drag out the few Pathe records I have.. One is a Pathe Millitary band record. Heres the deal.. One side played quite well and the sound quality was good on the Brunswick. But the other side demonstrated the issues I have run into.. It refused to track. It was a center start record. The first side worked correctly, but no adjusting would make the second side work, it just keep sliding toward the middle of the record. Not sure why one side would play and the other not, but thats a situation I have had before?

Larry