Phonoland

Hello All,

Another newbie question from this newbie.

I have the opportunity to purchase a late 1920's Columbia-Kolster phonograph. I've started collecting accoustics (I have a Grafonola and a portable wind up) and stumbled across this. It's an interesting piece for several reasons.

As I understand, this was an early electric phonograph - but in mechanism only(?). I am basing this on a few tid bits gleaned online as well as info from the seller (who admits he doesn't know much about it). It has a motor, and wires running to the stylus housing (at this stage can you call it a "reproducer"?), but the stylus is of the acoustic, play-once steel needle type, and the sound is amplified via an acoustic tone arm into internal horns. It is not, despite asking, a combination tube radio / phono.

It's an odd duck. Not quite electric or acoustic. (As such, if this needs to be moved to the acoustic forum, admins please do so/let me know. I would post about it there as well, but didn't want to cross-post.)

Does anyone know about these models? What kind of "soundbox" does it use? Are parts going to be impossible? What kind of wiring will I need to do to power it up through modern outlets?

Effectively, is it worth getting or should I run away screaming? It sounds neat (not literally, just historically), hence my interest. It also is housed in a nice looking piece of multi-purpose furniture (which the Mrs greatly appreciates).

Thanks!

I know nothing about these--but that being said, why would wires go to a "reproducer" ? It would seem to me that the wires indicate a "cartridge" and an electric amplifier was used--perhaps the unit has been "updated", or "modified" ? Ron Rich

Thanks. It is probably a cartridge of some sort in those things - I just wasn't sure given the weird hybrid technology it uses what to call it.

Some of my info was deduced over the phone in the attempt to know what I was getting into before I drove 1.5 hours to take a look at it in person. Unfortunately the seller didn't know much, including how to make and keep an appointment, so I'll never know.

No, that's definitely an early electromagnetic pickup hanging from the side of the mounting. There would probably be a horseshoe magnet inside that square casing, with copper wire wrapped around it.

Here's a photo of one that sold on Craigslist awhile back, showing the position of the pickup:




All early electric pickups used thumbscrew type mountings for their needles. While it may be fitted with a removable steel needle, it would probably have originally used a plated needle for multiple plays, or possibly one equipped with a tungsten tip.

Many of the tonearms used for the early electrically amplified phonographs were of the acoustic type. The manufacturers simply ran the wires through them. In that way, the same tonearm could be used for their lines of both acoustic and all-electric models. Looking carefully at the tonearm, though, the opening is far too small to accommodate an acoustic type "sound box" or reproducer.

As far as I know, Columbia introduced it's all-electric line about a year or so after Victor and Brunswick, and all of the Columbia electrically amplified models were of the conventional type fitted with amplifiers and loudspeakers, rather than true horns. In some cases, the early speakers were mounted at the base of small horns for extra oomph, but I don't know if this is true for Columbia-Koslter models. I'd guess that if the seller didn't see the amplifier, it was probably removed at some point.

I should point out that some of the early Victor electrically amplified models DID use the same exponential folded horns that were fitted into their all acoustic Orthophonic models--especially those equipped with radios. The radio was electrically amplified while the phonograph was acoustic. One interesting model, though, is the Victor VE-8-60 which was actually fitted with a tonearm equipped with an acoustic sound box AND an electric (horseshoe magnet) pickup -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/8-60.htm In this case, the owner would pull a small lever which slid an electrically driven diaphragm into the throat of the horn's elbow to activate the electrical playback.

Unlike wind-up type acoustic phonographs, these early all electric models can be an expensive proposition, when it comes to repairs. Of course, ANY early electric phonograph/radio combination will have to have the electrical components overhauled top to bottom before it can be safely used. (The same holds true for the aging record players from about the early 1980s and before. How time flies!)

JDS

<sigh>

I knew it might be a gamble of sorts given it's use of electricity, but it ended up "not to be" anyway given the seller's odd scheduling circumstances (we could not find a firm time that could not change at the last minute). Difficult to pull off when an hour and a half away.

I know this very Kolster unit was discussed as being for sale just a few months ago (a different owner) via another forum (who never gets around to validating my registration ) so it seems like a "hot potato" for some reason. My guess is the wiring.

So... I have a lead for anyone west of Boston if interested Just be able to drop everything at the drop of a hat!

<sigh><sigh>

Of course, ANY early electric phonograph/radio combination will have to have the electrical components overhauled top to bottom before it can be safely used. (The same holds true for the aging record players from about the early 1980s and before. How time flies!) [emphasis awc71]

As I've just gotten back into vinyl via an early 70's Garrard I know! I'm still tinkering with its auto play, though on the back bench.

The spouse and I noticed during a recent record show trip two things:

• the sensory feeling of flipping through LP racks was "rusty" but still engrained in our physical memories
• the demo of the other patrons were either our age/older OR young "hipsters. No one in between. A lost digital-only generation?

Yes. Time flies like an arrow and fruit flies love a banana (to paraphrase Mssr. Groucho).

Sentimentality aside, a very interesting and helpful reply JDS (as always)!