Hi Mark,
Yes the WP switch is supposed to stay closed, until the last selected pin is "un-selected".
As Clones stated above--check the write in arm connections--pay particular attention to the one with two (usually black) wires--one going to each write-in coil. If those wires and the one to each coil are OK, I suspect very strongly that the failure is in the contact "rings", or soldering to the coils. I have never found ANYTHING, except DeoxIT 5, to be successful in cleaning these-if anyone else has found something else, please post it -Do NOT use anything abrasive, in any way--
Ron Rich
Rockola 441 Light Flash on PSU??? Video added!
Q&A about all types of jukeboxes: Wurlitzer, Seeburg, Rock-Ola, AMI, and more.
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markymarkuk
Topic author - Regular Member
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:25 am
- Location: United Kingdom
Do you ever get that feeling of going round in circles... 
Really has helped reading the posts here from you guys but I'm running out of solutions now... If I was a rock star, this jukebox would have been thrown out of the hotel window long ago!!!
Anyway, Just finishing going over the 441 again... I'm sure you guys are right, it's got to be a bad connection somewhere, but I've cleaned every surface connector, cleaned every plug and socket, wiggled the wire loom around and still its not playing ball!
Checked the relays and they all appear to work. I can press a selection keys, write in rotates and stops in correct position, but it still does not fire the solenoid and kick the pin in to play position.
My opinion is that there is definitely power going to the selector rivets as the carriage arm always stops on the correct position, the solenoids in the credit unit box operate, the accumulator reset coil which is suppose to provide power to the write in solenoid, and also powers the ADR, this works.
I've tried following the schematic of the unit, but I'd have more luck following a bowl of spaghetti!!!! I'm now at a loss for where to look and test next.. any ideas. May post another video later if you think it may help?
Really has helped reading the posts here from you guys but I'm running out of solutions now... If I was a rock star, this jukebox would have been thrown out of the hotel window long ago!!!
Anyway, Just finishing going over the 441 again... I'm sure you guys are right, it's got to be a bad connection somewhere, but I've cleaned every surface connector, cleaned every plug and socket, wiggled the wire loom around and still its not playing ball!
Checked the relays and they all appear to work. I can press a selection keys, write in rotates and stops in correct position, but it still does not fire the solenoid and kick the pin in to play position.
My opinion is that there is definitely power going to the selector rivets as the carriage arm always stops on the correct position, the solenoids in the credit unit box operate, the accumulator reset coil which is suppose to provide power to the write in solenoid, and also powers the ADR, this works.
I've tried following the schematic of the unit, but I'd have more luck following a bowl of spaghetti!!!! I'm now at a loss for where to look and test next.. any ideas. May post another video later if you think it may help?
Hi
From the video the wobble plate solenoid is operating and from what you have seen yourself the accumulator reset relay is operating . These are operated by the stop relay so for the moment we can rule that out. The accumulator relay removes the credit and then at same time two contacts close, one provides power to the coils on the write in arm and other connects a circuit to the adr relay. I had to look at a manual myself to make sure but it says "the the construction of the adr relay is such that it is momentarily delayed to ensure a fat pulse to the hammer coil". So perhaps the accumulator relay contact which provides power to the coils is not making fully or the other contact to the adr is not making fully.
Clones
From the video the wobble plate solenoid is operating and from what you have seen yourself the accumulator reset relay is operating . These are operated by the stop relay so for the moment we can rule that out. The accumulator relay removes the credit and then at same time two contacts close, one provides power to the coils on the write in arm and other connects a circuit to the adr relay. I had to look at a manual myself to make sure but it says "the the construction of the adr relay is such that it is momentarily delayed to ensure a fat pulse to the hammer coil". So perhaps the accumulator relay contact which provides power to the coils is not making fully or the other contact to the adr is not making fully.
Clones
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markymarkuk
Topic author - Regular Member
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:25 am
- Location: United Kingdom
Before I dive further, would it make a difference if I do not have the amp connected? Reason I ask is I have removed the amplifier as the tubes are missing so was thinking of buying a replacement amplifier. So in the meantime, I pulled the 2 plugs out and removed the amp from the jukebox. Just wondering, does the amp need to be present for the mechanical side to work?
And would this removal cause the write in solenoids not to power up???? Guess its a long shot!!!!!
Maybe if any readers here have similar jukebox maybe you could pull out both the plugs to the amp and see if the mech part works!!!!
And would this removal cause the write in solenoids not to power up???? Guess its a long shot!!!!!
Maybe if any readers here have similar jukebox maybe you could pull out both the plugs to the amp and see if the mech part works!!!!
Hi
No it won't make any difference whether amp is connected or not
Clones
No it won't make any difference whether amp is connected or not
Clones
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markymarkuk
Topic author - Regular Member
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:25 am
- Location: United Kingdom
Just wanted to update those who have been following this thread, and especially the few guys who have kindly helped to sort my issues. But after a night of testing, cleaning and reading every schematic for my Rockola 441, I've decided to throw the towel in and get rid of it. It's a real shame as I bought it as a project to learn about the workings of a jukebox, and would have been cool to have in my workshop and play a few of my 7" viinyl collection.
But it's beaten me, shame as the Rockola 441 is a lovely compact jukebox, but I've come to realise that after all the work I've put in, this was a barn find and everything (and I mean everything) was rust and seized solid. So I'm proud to have cleaned it, and almost made it to the end, but I've come to realise that it only takes a few electrical faults and it can be almost impossible to track them down without stripping everything, and painstackingly testing bit by bit.
I spent today putting it back together, and will be sad to see this go, been a fixture in my workshop (albeit in pieces) for a year now.
Once again thank you guys for your time and advice, and sorry to anyone in the future reading these forums who were hoping to find the solution...
Rockola 441 RIP
But it's beaten me, shame as the Rockola 441 is a lovely compact jukebox, but I've come to realise that after all the work I've put in, this was a barn find and everything (and I mean everything) was rust and seized solid. So I'm proud to have cleaned it, and almost made it to the end, but I've come to realise that it only takes a few electrical faults and it can be almost impossible to track them down without stripping everything, and painstackingly testing bit by bit.
I spent today putting it back together, and will be sad to see this go, been a fixture in my workshop (albeit in pieces) for a year now.
Once again thank you guys for your time and advice, and sorry to anyone in the future reading these forums who were hoping to find the solution...
Rockola 441 RIP
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DoghouseRiley
- Senior Member
- Posts: 630
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:48 pm
- Location: North-West England
markymarkuk wrote:Just wanted to update those who have been following this thread, and especially the few guys who have kindly helped to sort my issues. But after a night of testing, cleaning and reading every schematic for my Rockola 441, I've decided to throw the towel in and get rid of it. It's a real shame as I bought it as a project to learn about the workings of a jukebox, and would have been cool to have in my workshop and play a few of my 7" viinyl collection.
But it's beaten me, shame as the Rockola 441 is a lovely compact jukebox, but I've come to realise that after all the work I've put in, this was a barn find and everything (and I mean everything) was rust and seized solid. So I'm proud to have cleaned it, and almost made it to the end, but I've come to realise that it only takes a few electrical faults and it can be almost impossible to track them down without stripping everything, and painstackingly testing bit by bit.
I spent today putting it back together, and will be sad to see this go, been a fixture in my workshop (albeit in pieces) for a year now.
Once again thank you guys for your time and advice, and sorry to anyone in the future reading these forums who were hoping to find the solution...
Rockola 441 RIP
Sad to hear your news,presumably it didn't cost you too much money, just a lot of time, but you will have at least gained some valuable experience, should you decide to get another.
Now, we don't want to see this turning up on eBay described as "was working, should be an easy fix for someone."
(Sorry! Just my sense of humour!)
Last edited by DoghouseRiley on Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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I don't mind if you don't like my manners, I don't like them myself, they're pretty bad, I grieve over them on long winter evenings.
Hi
maybe give it a few more days, check the resistance of the write in coils so you can rule out whether these are defective or not, use a burnishing tool to clean relay contacts especially the relays in the credit unit, also check the coils themselves -acc reset and adr
clones
maybe give it a few more days, check the resistance of the write in coils so you can rule out whether these are defective or not, use a burnishing tool to clean relay contacts especially the relays in the credit unit, also check the coils themselves -acc reset and adr
clones
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