wurlitzer 1050 problems

Hi All,

I would really appreciate some help/advice.

I have a Wurlitzer 1050 i am working on, i have fixed a few little issues and i am currently trying to work this one out. The machine loads a credit, solenoid operates, i can then select the letter and number which then sends the pin mech rotating around for a couple times but doesn't select a pin. If i manually raise a pin and operate the carousel relay it will select play and put the record back.

Does anybody have any clues on key items to check?

I have stated following the circuit back from the D6 diode which in the manual ( which is a bit vague in spots) is at -28v. Supply side of diode is at -28v but go to the other side of the diode ( on the pcb) i am reading -40v. I am assuming i am getting feedback from the pcb somewhere? I have followed this so far to the keyboard which still says -40v there as well. Any ideas on this reading would be greatly appreciated.

It seems as thought there is is only the one thing stopping it from working properly, just need to figure out why it wont select a pin.

As before appreciate any help on ideas, a hit list etc. And if there is a better manual ( the one i have is a downloaded version i believe).

Cheers

Corey

Hi Corey,
Going from my great, HOWEVER, not too long memory, when the later US built WurliTzer's do that, the contacts on top of the selector assembly drum are not making good contact. Usually cleaning them by removing the assembly, and coating them with Deoxit-5, will cure the problem, unless the "contact fingers" that ride the drum are worn to the point that they need replacement. Also, in my mind, is this can be a problem in the keyboard---either the slide switches themselves, or the "number/letter" switches. I don't remember what they used to accomplish write in on this model, it may be either a relay, or a Triac--in any case, check the schematic--if a relay, clean it--if a Triac--replace it
As for the manual-- I seem to recall that the 1050 manual was a supplement--rather then a full manual--check with the suppliers listed above for the correct printed copy. One other thing comes to mind--I think I have seen the motor that powers the write-in arm cause similar problems due to lack of proper lubrication--fill the oil wicks on it with 20 wt ND oil -- allow it to seep in- and check that the "fly-out" clutch is, in fact "flying out", fast enough ! Ron Rich

Thanks Ron i appreciate the advice,

I very new to this and working it out as i go, i will work out how to get the board out to clean it. The arms look ok that contact the board (but I'm no expert) as they seem to have tension and a good length with a 45 degree bend onto the board. ( is that right ?)When you say " write in " I assume you are meaning what is telling the unit to select the pin. From what i can see so far it uses relays to complete the circuit up to keyboard and further on (I'm working in reverse from the D6 diode back) as well as reed switches on the keyboard interlocked to the keys latching etc.

I would of assumed this model would of used a triac being it was the last model, it does use a transistor to turn on RY3 ( this drives the record unit) but other than that i can only see contacts. ( unless I'm missing something). It does have TRIACS, but i have not looked what they drive as yet, everything else seems to work so i am hoping they are ok at this stage.

The keyboard is a little confusing at this stage so trying to work it out. Would anyone have any drawings/schematics of the keyboard only?

I apologise for so many questions etc, but would like advice from the people's who have experience in these machines.

Thanks again for the advice Ron.

Cheers

Corey

Hi all,
Little bit of an update, i pulled the selector assembly apart today and cleaned the wiper plate. I thought for sure it would be an issue as it was pretty dirty. I cleaned and used deoxit metered checked wipers, metered coils ( did not take diode off , i would not think the coils would be a common failure point) and put back together. Unfortunately no luck still did not select a pin.

Any ideas what voltage i should be measuring at the keys?

Will keep trying.

Cheers

Corey

Hi Cory,
I have seen "bad diodes" on the coils--not often-but, none the less---this will cause WI failure--
As for the schematic--the 3700 series, or whatever is the "main manual" for the 1050, should have it--
Ron

Hi All,

A bit of an update, i have got the pin selector working. Following the circuit through i found the switch on the latch solenoid on the rear of the keyboard assembly has a set of faulty contacts. It is dodgy so i need to find a new one, would anybody know where i could get one?

BUT! Not long i got the pin assembly working the carousel decided it would not spin anymore. After pin is selected the solenoid at the rear of the carousel operates but it does not turn. If i put it into scan mode the carousel will spin, which i guess proves the motor is ok.

Any clues on this one?

I also notice that the turntable decides it just wants to start spinning at time without any selection, which is a bit strange. I have a plan to change the triacs out, could this cause this?

Cheers

Corey

Hi Cory,
What type switch is that ?
On the carousel failure to run, that's almost always the set of open blade contacts, near the start coil that you say is energizing.( I believe the service manual calls them "override contacts") IMHO, this set of contacts has very weak blades which fails to wipe themselves clean--also, IMHO, there are many others within WurliTzers that suffer the same problem.
Not sure what drives the TT motor--need to check the schematic for that info--?
Ron Rich

Hi Ron,

Below is the switch I was referring to, it is a bit dodgy and I will need to find a new one.



Also below is the solenoid ( Override?) that I said operates after it selects a pin. I checked this as you said and I found that operating the contacts will start and stop the turntable. So I am guessing this little problem is tied together somehow.



Are these the contacts you were talking about? The carousel will turn when I operate the scan/load/run switch so this proves the circuit from there forward, but prior to that I can only see that it ties into a circuit board with Transistors/Triacs. I am assuming this runs the carousel. I am not sure why you would need to run it this way but I am guessing it does. Would you agree? I do have a snippet from the schematic I am looking at but am unsure if I am allowed to post it here or not. It did star tto work again for a while but then stopped again which kinda leads me to say it is a switch/contact somewhere as I would not think a triac would work then stop then work again then stop again. Unless there is a dry joint on the board?

Another issue I seem to be having is the record playing slightly slow, the spindle is on the correct section to play a 45. I am on 50HZ in Australia which I believe would explain it if it was AC driven. But this is DC driven so should be ok. I have oiled the below tube several times which did improve it but it is still not right. Any suggestions ?



As always I appreciate any assistance anyone can offer.


Cheers

Corey

Hi Corey,
That type switch is ALWAYS "dodgy"--even brand new--It was not designed to handle low voltage/current work. Best to just "spray it", and it will be as good as new for a few years--(Deoxit-5 seems to last longer then anything else I have used). Yes--that's the scan control unit--and the contacts I was concerned about--if working --do NOT attempt to fix ! Find out why the coil is not being energized--see the schematic--
As for the motor-I think (99.9999% sure ?) it's an AC driven unit--the "oil tube" you see is for the bottom bearing--the top one MUST be oiled also, and both the idler ( which says "Do Not Oil"), and the turntable inside must be clean and free of oil --BTW, IMHO, ONLY 20 wt. ND oil should be used in that motor ( and all motors, in the phono) ! Ron Rich

Thanks Ron,

The picture i posted of the scan solenoid is operating after the pin selects just the motor to turn the carousel is not starting. And the only thing i can see off the schematic is the circuit board that i am assuming drives it.

Am i able to post the snippet of what i think is driving it from the manual?

I will check again on the turntable motor, i assumed it was DC, if so i guess this is why it is slightly slow.

Cheers

Corey

Corey,
Which "manual" are you looking at ?? The 1050 "manual" is incomplete--it should tell you it's a "supplement", or something of that nature, to be used in conjunction with a ---- (3700 ??) manual--Ron Rich

HI Ron,

I am using the 3700 as well as 1050 supplements. The 1050 supplement is the schematic I am using for fault finding.



I am a little lost with this issue at the moment to be honest. ( carousel not turning)

Cheers

Corey

Hi Corey,
OK--I'm confuzzed-ed-- Is the basket turning when the contacts are closed ? I thought you indicated it did ? Will it turn if you set the service switch to "scan" ? Ron Rich

Hi Ron,

If i operate the contacts on the solenoid he basket does not turn BUT the turntable starts ( where the record plays) . If i reset the contacts the turntable stops.

If i operate the scan switch the BASKET will turn.

That would appear to me to indicate that the motor can receive power (or, most likely, "ground"), from two sources. You will need to look at the schematic and determine what these to sources are, and why one is not working ( bad relay contact--bad Triac ?--would be my guess). Ron Rich