Phonoland

I have a RCA Victor Victrola Model PVCR-84. I just recently picked this up for free, it was said to be working, but missing a needle. I tested it out, and there are a few issues, but nothing that doesn't seem unfixable. I have a few small issues, and more photographs can be taken if needed, just tell me, I will!

I can't have ANY information on the player, not even a date, anyone know ANYTHING about it?

My first question is when I select 33 1/3, I pull the switch to ON. I hear the belt move a bit, it studders some, and kind of idles. When I put my hand on the turntable itself and give it a little push, it kicks in, the tonearm comes and lowers. Is my belt too old? Do I need to oil it up? It hasn't been used in years, and I am not sure when it was even made.

My second question is about cartridges, I'm a bit new to it all, and I am unsure if I can even replace mine. There are two screws, and when undone it lowers out, but 3 wires attach to it. Is this replaceable somehow by a modern-day one? I mean can I just simply switch it out for a new one, or do I need the exact same cartridge/stylus of that model for it to work.


The Pictures:







Thanks.

Your unit looks to be about an early "60s model. The turntable problems are due to the age of the rubber on the idler wheel (no belt). These can be made to work sometimes by cleaning with alcohol or a rubber rejuvinator such as Vita-Drive. You will also want to clean the inner rim of the platter. To be thorough the entire changer mechanism should be cleaned and lubricated. The cartridge is ceramic and may be o-k though a new stylus is in order. You can find many stylus vendors on auction sites as well as using a search engine or the archives on this site. This is a tube amp and due to it's age the capacitors are most likely shot or will be soon. A loud hum is your first clue though you did not mention any hum. You also didn't state whether the FM has the same problem which would indicate how broad is the low volume problem. The volume & tone controls may need cleaning with contact cleaner/lube and the tubes may need tested, however tubes are seldom the source of trouble. Go through the archives on this site as well as the web to learn more about how to restore this unit. Assuming the cabinet isn't beat up it is definely worth restoring.

Thanks for your help, honestly. I asked all over, and you're the first person to come forth with some definite answers and suggestions that help alot. I appreciate it. I estimated it to be somewhere between the 1950-60s so I'm glad you think so also. I couldn't find too much information about it online though sadly, just a few random posts about it, but no manual or true information.

The speakers both started working again, they come in crisp. Maybe it just needed more time to warm up after 20 years of being off, haha. I went to the back of my Cabinet to hear the tubes, but I hear no humming, it's rather quiet. Perhaps they still have a bit of life left in them?

I see I'm missing a belt, though I'm confused exactly where or how I would go about finding one. When I visit stores and vintage-archives online to try to find a replacement I am clueless to which is the right sizing, model, and such. Any advice?

Found a replacement stylus on Needledepot.


The cabinet is actually in great shape, it was kept covered in storage, only thing that's a problem is there's a large cup stain on the top, but I have experience in finishing wood, I can easily sand it and varnish it back.




Also my back piece is torn and broken off. Are these replaceable from anywhere? If not, I can easily whip one up myself, the only issue will be making all those holes, haha.

That is an RCA RP-215 record changer.

There is a two-eyed ring clip around the turntable shaft that holds the turntable on the changer. Use a ring puller to remove it. If you don't have a ring puller, you can use two small straight blade screwdrivers to spread the ring enough to lift if up. Once you get the clip loose, it should lift off the spindle, and the turntable will come off too. (I just noticed that you already got it off.)

Once you are in there, lubricate the motor shaft where it enters the motor, and also the center of the idler wheel, and the pivots on the jockey arms that position the wheel. If you can get some, use Caig CaiKleen RBR rubber restorer on the idler wheel. Do NOT lubricate the rubber parts, or the stepped drive spindle. Also clean the inner rim of the turntable.

Be sure to clean the record dropping parts after putting the turntable back (especially the sliding guide in the top of the spindle), or the changer will drop more than one record per cycle.

I posted my pm to you, for the benefit of others:

DeanC wrote:Hi, I just wanted to thank you personally in PM regarding your post about my record player, everything you said was very useful information for me to find parts needed to restore it to a working condition. Just wanted to ask you personally your suggestions and comment on something.

As for the metal turntable top, all I do is place my hands on the side of it, and raise it upwards, I don't need any tools to do so. It gives no hard resistance, just a sluggish slide. Is that wrong, is it damaging it? Or are you referring to something else with the "ring puller"?

Someone else took the ring clip off, and never put it back. I left mine off too, when I had one of those.

- What lube do you suggest?

Sewing machine or 3-in-1 is fine.

The tonearm seems a bit slow, I have sewing machine oil. Should I oil the tonearm parts?

What do you mean by "slow"? Is the arm stiff while playing, or is it moving slow during the change cycle? Don't mess with the arm bearings. There is damping fluid in them. If the fluid has hardened, I can tell you how to make some. But I have never seen it happen, except for one changer that was in a fire.

And finally, where exactly.. is the belt? I don't have one, and I assume one is required, or I thought, or does it simply run by the Idler Wheel?

Very few automatic changers have belts. The motor spindle turns the idler wheel, which presses against the inside rim of the turntable. A belt does not provide enough traction to power the change cycle.

I can count all of the changers with belts in a few lines:
Utah 550 (ran the change cycle, not the turntable)
VM 403, 404, 405, 406, 407, 800, 802, 803 (coupled speed turrets, not main drive)
Early 4-speed Silvertone models (coupled speed turrets, not main drive)
Garrard RC-80
VM 1585, 1555, 1701, and 1702 (separate motor for change cycle)
BIC changers (and later Radio Shack and StackOMatic clones)
One BSR changer in the 1970s

Use a screwdriver blade to push the idler back into place while putting the turntable on, or you will damage the idler. Also, leave the speed control in N when not using the turntable.

-- Okay, I got sewing oil, and the rubber cleaner, so I should go good.

-- When I meant slow, I think it's merely because the wheel isn't turning, and that's not cueing the tonearm to go over and actively set down. It just raises, and the sorta goes back down. I think if it was more lubricated (The wheel and parts, not the tonearm) it would run better and more efficiently.

This is usually a hard idler wheel. Also, remember that the cycle is slower at 33 than it is at 78.

If the lube on the cycle slide or gear teeth is bad, use light grease.

Do NOT lube the trip parts. They must be dry to work.

-- As for the screwdriver part on the idler wheel, well. I haven't really touched the idle wheel, I know it spins (obviously), but wasn't aware I needed to move it at all.

This just keeps the edge of the turntable from cutting the rubber. Just push the wheel in enough that the turntable does not rest on top of it.

Also leave the speed control in "N"? I don't believe I have any settings on my board for a speed control other than the album type - 16/33/45/78.

I see it in the photos. It's between 45 and 78. That puts the drive in neutral, so you don't get flat spots on the idler.

Well, I think that is just about all the questions I had! I ordered up a brand new stylus (old stock) and rubber cleaner. I found the cartridge is called a "Astatic 475d cartridge" though mine still might be working, will have to test. Once I get them, hopefully I can tweak it up with some TLC and sewing oil and get it working well. I'll post my results and any other questions I may have.

Thanks a ton Record-Changer, I learned a ton about it just in this night, and you were more than helpful to answer all my questions and follow-up ones from my novice standpoint. I truly appreciate it, and will check back in with you with my results in the near future when my items arrive.

Cheers, and thanks. Hopefully others can also learn something from your knowledge.

I refinished, stained, and polyurethaned the top of the cabinet because I didn't like the watermarks it had. It came out fine, and I went back to work on the actual record player when my parts came.

I received the rubber rejuvenator as suggest on my idle wheel, and I followed in the instructions and it seems to be in fair shape, no cracks or rough edges. When I take the table off from the spindle, I can see it working and spinning smoothly.

The trouble is when I put the table (turntable disc) back on the spindle, and I put a record down, turn it to On. It stalls a good amount, it sorta chugs slowly like molasses. The only how the tonearm starts is if I assist it in giving it a soft push in the clockwise direction, and turntable keeps at a constant speed then. Should I oil anything specific? Lubricate?

Hi DeanC,

At one time you could buy pegboard, it came in large sheets the same as hardboard.
The holes go all over the sheet so you would not have he boarders you have now, but it should suffice. The alternative would be to use a combination of pegboard and a hardboard surround. Have you seen the hardboard joining strips (they are sometimes used on self assemly furniture).

Regards
Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

This is what happens when I try to start up the 33 1/3 player to ON.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdZvz2DRrcs

You can see it will begin to spin 33 rotations fine, the tonearm lifts, moves left towards the record and it makes a CLICK sound, it then bounces back right, and stops. The spinning stops. The tonearm is then pretty much stiff and unmoveable, I have to slide the disk manually to get it to drop into place, and even then it drops it a 45 RPM size, not 33.

Even if the disk rotates with a 33 1/3 on it, I can manually place the tonearm down. It has a new needle on it, and it doesn't play correctly. I get a no speaker sound, I get a line-level sound coming from the cartridge(?) or turntable itself. I think perhaps my cartridge is dead, or that I need to replace my tubes.

It should set down for a 7" record with no record on the turntable. There are two size sensors that determine the record size. The speed control has no effect on the size. Only the extra-cheap changers from the early 1950s and the late 1970s used the speed control to set the size.

There is a little black rubber rising feeler next to the turntable rim. It is between the turntable and the tonearm shaft. This rises once during the change cycle. If a 7" record is being played, the feeler rises all the way up, selecting 7" operation. A 10" or 12" record on the turntable will stop the feeler from rising, and set the size to 10".

A second feeler is mounted on the overarm shaft sleeve. it looks like a little flag. A 12" record strikes this as it drops down the spindle. If the 12" record is already on the turntable, this impulse is missing, and the arm will set down for a 10" record instead. You can fool the changer into 12" operation with a single record on the turntable by pushing the flag back when the arm swings out over the rest post.

Using the drop feeler means that this record changer can play a mixed stack of 10" and 12" records. But 7" records must be played in a stack by themselves.

The changer is binding for some reason when the arm is all the way out. Check the following:

- See if the cycle completes at 78 rpm. If so, it's the idler wheel. Check the spring that pushes the idler against the motor spindle.

- This changer uses a slide cam to move most of the parts. It is a large metal plate that slides back and forth during the change cycle. One end is formed to move the pickup arm, while the other end is formed to drop the record. Make sure the slot in the change cycle slide cam, where the oscillating stud of the drive gear moves it, is well greased.

- Check to see if the motor is stopping at the point when the change cycle slide cam fully extends. It might need lubrication or repair.

- Check to see that the record pusher is moving into the slot in the spindle, and if it extends just enough for the pushing edge to be even with the edge of the spindle ledge. Is the record pusher in the spindle being pushed too far? This is the usual cause. Check to see if the pusher is bent, if there is foreign matter in the spindle slot, if the pusher actuation lever underneath is bent, if something else is interfering with the pusher lever, or if the change cycle slide is bent where it activates the pusher. It looks to me like the pusher is moving too soon, but the video is so poor that I can't see it very well.

- See if something is interfering with the motion of the slide cam. A wire might be caught in it when it extends all the way.

- Make sure that the hex screws holding the slide cam in place are tight.

More info.

The picture shows where the size feelers are.

Be sure the little rubber tip is on the 10" feeler. If it is missing, the feeler will badly scratch the records.

More causes:

1. Is the spindle itself bent?

2. Is the pickup arm striking the rest post as it swings out? If so, it is not raising high enough. Adjust the hex screw over the pickup arm shaft on the underside of the tonearm. The lift rod pushes up on this screw. It should be adjusted so that:

- The needle lowers enough to set on the record.
- The arm does not rise high enough to hit the record stack on the spindle.
- The arm rises high enough to clear the rest post.
- The arm rises to 1/8" below the record stack up on the spindle.

3. If the floating springs are sagging or if the transit locks are screwed down, the change cycle slide cam can hit the wooden mounting board. This can jam the slide motion, causing the trouble. MAKE SURE the changer is floating on its springs.

.

That click sound is normal. It is the arm indexing lever latching the pickup arm lever as the arm swings out. This lever has notches in it to tell it where to stop for the three record sizes. Another click occurs when the 10" feeler rises, but only when 7" records are being played.

NEVER block the outward swinging of the pickup arm on this changer. There is no swingout safety drive on this model. Blocking the arm motion can damage parts.

What exaclty is the proper way to load a record onto this turntable? I'm a bit novice, but I believe I do it correctly. For the most part what I do is it place the turntable on the spindle at the little step. I move the rest-arm atop of it, and turn it to ON. It then drops down, hitting the 12" feeler, and then the tonearm raises and stops. I felt like my idle-wheel was in good shape, it was clean, no cracks or bumps, no damage. I used the rubber cleaner on it once like instructed, and it seems to rotate properly.

Here's the latest video with me putting an actual vinyl on, needle, and all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hebyh_h4bEg


I guess it all seems to flow nicely, I mean nothing is off-center or colliding into one another. I oiled it the best I could, use rubber cleaner/rejevuenator, but I guess it's not strong enough or so to catch the rim to spin it strong enough?

Like I said, if I just give it a light extra push, it goes fully over smoothly and works again (like in the video). I just can't get that extra juice and push for it to do it all smoothly, it's as-if somethings just not strong enough anymore.

- See if the cycle completes at 78 rpm. If so, it's the idler wheel. Check the spring that pushes the idler against the motor spindle.

Well I don't have any 78s on hand, but, when I do select the 78 option, and turn on. The table spin, and the tonearm raises, click, and turns off again. Just like in the video, it stalls. Now if I push the table in the direction, it'll slowly return and begin movement again.

1. Is the spindle itself bent?

2. Is the pickup arm striking the rest post as it swings out? If so, it is not raising high enough.

No, and no. It's straight and working. The pickup arm doesn't hit anything, just kinda halts.


But also.. I don't mind that I need to give it a light push, maybe it's a bit slow to start, but it's not a huge problem. A bigger problem to me is that I get no sound from my speakers when the needle hits the vinyl. In the video you'll hear music, and it's from the actual cartridge itself (i think?) but nothing processes through the speakers. I get this low line-level, nothing else. I switch the knob to all options - STEREO - MONO - AM/FM - TAPE. Nothing.

Well, this is a bit shameful to say, but I found my biggest problem. If you look at the top pictures, the photograph I took of the idle wheel and I have the turntable disk in hand, I am missing a long screw that secures the turntable to the wood. So this whole time it's been on a slight incline, I gotta head to the store tomorrow see if I can at all find a replacement that will fit it. Hopefully those screws are still made in that size, or atleast width.