1959 Wurlitzer 2304S Jukebox

Hello,

My wife and I are the proud owners of a 1959 Wurlitzer 2304S Jukebox.
For sometime now it will only play the "A" selections of any number. I have looked at the solenoid adjustments and am stumped? Any insight as to what may be the problem besides a possible bad driver solenoid? Could it be a voltage issue and if so from where? Also if it is a bad driver solenoid...when can I get a replacement?
Thanks for your time and help.

Eric

Just to better describe what I have looked at and checked...
I have looked at the driver solenoid adjustment.

I have looked at the driver solenoid while selections are being made, driver solenoid seems weak and will not fully pull the cage even to the "B" stop).

I have tried to check the voltage at the driver BUT I only have a digital meter and the voltage changes too fast to see it.

I have also lubed the driver solenoid.

The number selection buttons stick after selection is made so you have to press the "RESET" button prior to making another selection as well.

Could I have a problem with the number selector solenoid and it may be causing the driver solenoid to not get the proper voltage?

OR...am I just way over thinking this and the driver solenoid just needs replaced?

My driver solenoid part number is: Guardian Electric G.57384 64722 8.6 OHMS
Any idea where I can get one or an equivalent for replacement?
Thanks again for your time and help
Eric

Eric,
It's been years since I saw that problem on an-04 type Wurlie mech--but if I recall correctly, that is a coil-plunger type unit. If so, it is intended to run clean and dry--no "lube" on the plunger. Linkage, however may be "sticky" ?? Generally speaking, Guardian built products are extremely reliable. You can check this by carefully lifting one side of the coil wires and measuring the resistance--any reading between 7-10 ohms, I would consider to be an indication that the coil was good. If so, I would look at the power supply, and the relay contacts that power the coil for the cause of your problem --
As for the keyboard problem--that may, or may not be, because of the fact that a selection was not made, or a set of contacts somewhere that are "dirty".
I would suggest that if you do not have the Service Manual for it, you purchase a copy from one of the above listed suppliers--check, with your supplier, before purchase, that the manual has a "trouble shooting" section in it ! If not, a 17-18-1900 uses the same basic mechanism--
HTH, Ron Rich

Eric, the voltage for the driver solenoid passes first through the latch switches which are small leaf-type switches on the keyboard, these are known problems as they are too light and go out of adjustment. From there the voltage appears at the latter "A" and daisy-chained to the following three letters.

So to review:

An open/poor contact in the latch switches will cause your problem.

So will the feed-through connections (daisy chain) after the "A". This, BTW, was just an anti cheat and you can jump any or all of these feed through connections if necessary.

Another area to look at are the white "Amp" type plugs. These were notorious for poor connections and Wurlitzer went back to the typical round ones for subsequent models.

The driver solenoid is identical to the cancel solenoid in a Playrak and can be replaced with one. Generally, these fail by being kept energized if the selection system fails to complete. The tape around the coil will be burnt and coil shorted.

Rob/NYC

Thank you both, (Ron and Rob) for your time and help with this. I will look into all of the items that you both have suggested and will check the coil resistance.

I do have the manual and have looked at the troubleshooting areas for this problem but have not been able to diagnose the real problem as of yet.

I have checked the adjustment and contact resistance of the latch switches just behind the label tray and have also taken off the plugs and reinstalled them, (just to make sure the contact at each is new and good).

One other thing I remembered last night was that when this all started happening, if we would move the Jukebox to a different part of the room, (wiggle it around) it would work again, but then finally stopped working all together after it was taken to be used in a play at my parents church, (worked great at the church, Go figure). After we got it back home it never worked right again.

I know I had an issue with the turret lock switch that was not fully made when it returned from the church. After I found it NOT fully unlocked it functioned for that one evening and then only the "A" selections worked.

Does this seem to either of you to still relate to the same issues you suggested?
Thanks again to both of you for your help and time.

Eric

Eric,
Smells to me like the A-MP, amp-loc plugs, Rob mentioned--Ron Rich

I have a 2410 that was playing the wrong selections, it would only play two of the 10 numbers. All the letters worked fine. If you selected something else, it would just play the wrong record.

The way mine works is there are two driver solenoids that pull a lever on the bottom 1 way or the other to 5 different positions. It's attached directly to a shaft in the center of the mech, on the very bottom.

On mine, it was simply gummed up and wouldn't move correctly when the two solenoids pulled it one way or the other. Lubricated the pivot point, and worked it back and forth several times and it selected perfectly. If you select 3 or 8, it just leaves the lever centered. If you select 2 or 7, one solenoid pulls one direction, and another index solenoid pulls in that keeps the lever from going too far. If you select 4 or 9, the other solenoid pulls in, and the index solenoid keeps the lever from over shooting. If you select 1 or 6, it pulls all the way to one side because the index solenoid doesn't engage, and if you select 5 or 0 it pulls all the way to the other side.

Mine was the 50 record model, not sure if the same mech is in the 2304.

lyonsronnie,

It is different. On ours it selects the "Letter" with a driver solenoid that pulls the selector turret to the appropriate stop ie...A-D. The driver solenoid is barely moving and so it will not pull the turret to even hit the first letter stop, (the "B" stop). The numbers all work great and I have to agree with Rob and Ron that it most likely is a plug that is not making full contact. I will look into this today.

On a different subject...
Where is a good place, (besides ebay) to find 45 records. I have a hundred or so BUT mostly 50/60's vintage and am looking for more late 60's to present records?

I've had some luck at the salvation army electronics store, lots of 45's there for a buck each or less! They are usually well picked over though.

Also looking for the coin mechanism for this machine...was missing when my uncle took it out of his bar in the late 60's and gave it to his brother, (my step father). I would love to get the full coin mech for it but have had a hard time finding one that someone didn't want the price of a used car for it?

Any ideas?

Thanks and have a great day.

Guy's,
The"-04" mechanisms use a different selection system from the -00, -10 mechs.
For the coin gear, I don't know how much you are missing--did you check with used parts suppliers listed above ? Most of these guys will charge you slightly less overall then the prices people pay on ePay----PLUS, you will (usually) get the correct parts !! Ron Rich

The solenoid driver is good, (9.5 OHMS). All plugs are connected good. I notice the selector plate will jump but not turn when a letter selection is made. The rocker place, (selector plate is not binding and moves freely also the drive solenoid is smooth and adjusted properly). The letter latch switch is properly adjusted and functions properly. I am wondering if I have a ground problem or a bad CAP in the circuit? The circuit wants to get power to the drive solenoid but seems to be lacking the power to pull the selector rocker plate. I am just getting in to this and do have the manual BUT reading the electrical print is a slight challenge. Could someone help me out with easy points to check with a meter to see if the B-D voltage is getting to the driver solenoid to make it actuate? Where does the ground come from since there is only 2 wires on the plug to the outlet, (must use the return line like all old electrical devices). Where can I jumper a wire from to give the driver solenoid the full power to actuate the rocker plate so it will select all records A-D?

Thanks again.
Eric

Hi Eric,
It's been a LOOOOONG time since I have been inside a -04 mech--so, going from my great, but not too long memory, I believe that the coil is energized thru a DC powered, "timing relay". I do not have a schematic here to see for sure, but I think the coil itself is AC. If I am correct--there should be a cap/resistor circuit providing DC, while AC comes directly from the transformer thru the relay contacts. Therefore, I would start by examining the relay contact points, carefully, for "pits/burns" and take appropriate actions to insure all contacts passed the proper current. Next, I would check/replace caps in the Junction Box. Ron Rich

Thanks Ron. I will look into the relay and caps in question. I truely appreciate all of your time and help with this problem. Still need to get our pictures up of this beautiful jukebox as well as our pinball machine and Air King 4603-1 tube radio that my wife had received from her grandmother some years ago, (still need to get that working as well).

Thanks again Ron.

Eric

Eric, this schematic of the 2204 may help in tracing out your problem:

http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=gb ... 610cdfa896

The circuit architecture is the same as yours.

As Ron touched-on the relays and any time constant capacitors (electrolytic's) are a place to look especially if the pulse appears too short.

Rob

Could anyone tell me the National Rejectors, INC part numbers for the coin mech used on my 1959 Wurlitzer 2304S jukebox or even give me a link to a manual that lists the coin mech for this unit?
I am missing the rejector and coin separator for the unit.
These are the last two pieces to complete the jukebox.
Thanks for any help you have to offer.

Eric

Hi Eric,
I don't recall the numbers, but any of the units made in, or, around that time frame are interchangeable--even those made by the other company--CoinCo, aka. Coin Acceptors Inc.
If you Wurlie takes half-dollars, you will need the two section style. Any of the seller listed above should be able to supply you-- Ron Rich