Seeburg M100C

Hi Stan,
Yep--homemade part--I would just eliminate it-- Ron Rich

That was fast! I thought it had to be there because of the cartridge that was installed
Stan

Stan, at the risk of belaboring the point, yes, the preamp is there to offset the much lower output of the early stereo cart, but questions remain:
-What was needed there was a booster with flat response since the RIAA eq (such as Seeburg actually used) takes place in the following stage. If that added pre has it's own eq there is the risk that way too much bass will be added.

-Without that added gain, the amp will not be able to be driven to full output and the AGC (if used) will not be driven enough to even the level from different records. Since the amp's bass boost circuit is dependent on the position of the volume control, it is likely that the near-full up position will result in a rather thin sound.

-The "quality" of the installation leaves something to be desired. I understand your feelings here. I suggest you first listen to the existing setup. If bass and level seem excessive it should be a simple matter of reconnecting the original input of the 5879 to the cart socket via Pin-1 and disconnect the added pre altogether.

A better overall solution is to have the amp modded for a higher gain input stage incorporating a 12AX7 or similar tube. This was my solution. A halfway measure would be to add a simple one-transistor ckt to provide the needed gain.

Rob

Got this put together and fired it up today. surprize Surprize . It works!!!!!! Of course it still has some problems and i will be getting into them. I would like to get some new needles for it. Can someone tell me what type this Seeburg / Pickering stereo cartridge would use.
Stan Ski

Hi /Stan,
Depends on which "Seeburg/Pickering--" is installed--Use this forum--above in the "Announcements/sticky section" is a "Where to find--"post--Needle link ( and a lot of other "stuff"), with photo's, is listed there --
IF, you wish only the very best, PM me as I have some OEM needles left, at outrageous prices ! Ron Rich

Stan Ski wrote:Got this put together and fired it up today. surprize Surprize . It works!!!!!! Of course it still has some problems and i will be getting into them. I would like to get some new needles for it. Can someone tell me what type this Seeburg / Pickering stereo cartridge would use.
Stan Ski

Stan, you have the stereo "T" styli as used mod's 222-PFEA1U.
Victory Glass has them here: http://2nd-sight.com/victoryglass/victoryframe.asp

They are expensive so make sure the arm is tracking properly and the records are clean.

Rob

Wow, Those needles sure are expensive. Talked to the original owner today. I asked him how much playing time he thought was on the cartridge/needle. He said maybe pushing it 40 hours. Long story here but the machine was in storage since 2000. So i think for now i will hold off replacing them. I don't mind replacing the needles and paying the price but it just bugs me that it may not improve anything. Couple more questions. Does age affect the cartridge? I know that in old record players they do go bad just from getting old (kind of like me). Is there any problem with installing a 3 prong line cord. Thought it might be a good idea just for safety's sake. I know it is not a hot chassis but i do get about 22 volts AC from the chassis to ground and just want to be sure it is OK
Stan Ski

Hi Stan,
Those,as well as other Seeburg aftermarket needles, for mono carts., IMHO, are not high--considering--
For at least the last 25 years, whomever was making them was doing an inconsistent, if not down right poor job ! I would hazard a guess that the ones installed on your machine are the poor ones. The company that is now making them is doing a great job ( from what I hear). It took them a couple of years of research, and a lot of money to produce them, so I, for one am thankful it was done ( I attempted this, but costs were prohibitive for me).
It's all relative, remember the price of a gallon of gas when you were a kid ?? I remember it being 17.9 cents, for about one hour, during a "price war", when I was a kid working in a Union 76 station. We had old rusty pumps,that were extremely hard on our knuckles to change prices, and I was working alone when the call came to reduce the pump price to 17.9 cents. I was busy, and did not bother to do it for an hour or so, then the phone rang again, and the guy said to increase it back to 19.9. He asked me how many gallons we sold at 17.9, and I truthfully answered "none"--
As for the 22 volt leakage--find and fix this "culprit"--It is not legal to install a three wire cord on anything that did not have one installed by the factory, unless you get a new UL approval cirt. IMHO,ALL "jukeboxes" should be operated only when plugged into a GFI Circuit--but I think 22 volts to ground will trip a GFIC ? Ron Rich

Ron Rich wrote:Hi Stan,
Those,as well as other Seeburg aftermarket needles, for mono carts., IMHO, are not high--considering--
For at least the last 25 years, whomever was making them was doing an inconsistent, if not down right poor job ! I would hazard a guess that the ones installed on your machine are the poor ones. The company that is now making them is doing a great job ( from what I hear). It took them a couple of years of research, and a lot of money to produce them, so I, for one am thankful it was done ( I attempted this, but costs were prohibitive for me).
It's all relative, remember the price of a gallon of gas when you were a kid ?? I remember it being 17.9 cents, for about one hour, during a "price war", when I was a kid working in a Union 76 station. We had old rusty pumps,that were extremely hard on our knuckles to change prices, and I was working alone when the call came to reduce the pump price to 17.9 cents. I was busy, and did not bother to do it for an hour or so, then the phone rang again, and the guy said to increase it back to 19.9. He asked me how many gallons we sold at 17.9, and I truthfully answered "none"--
As for the 22 volt leakage--find and fix this "culprit"--It is not legal to install a three wire cord on anything that did not have one installed by the factory, unless you get a new UL approval cirt. IMHO,ALL "jukeboxes" should be operated only when plugged into a GFI Circuit--but I think 22 volts to ground will trip a GFIC ? Ron Rich

I definitely agree, Ronnie.
Back in the 1970's A replacement stylus for a Shure V-15 cartridge was about $35.00
Back then, that was pricy.
Now consider inflation, availability, and tooling costs today.... And when you do, it really isn't "expensive" at all.
In fact, it's darn cheap.

Wow, Those needles sure are expensive. Talked to the original owner today. I asked him how much playing time he thought was on the cartridge/needle. He said maybe pushing it 40 hours. Long story here but the machine was in storage since 2000. So i think for now i will hold off replacing them. I don't mind replacing the needles and paying the price but it just bugs me that it may not improve anything.

Stan, it looks like your current styli are sapphire (pale blue "T') if so they are probably worn out already. Also the sapphire styli that I bought here in NYC in 1985-6 were Pickering made and the sound was, in most pairs, inferior to the diamond tipped sets. Now and then, I got a good pair that sounded clear with minimal distortion, most were mushy. The diamond tips were far better.
This is what they look like:
http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... rt=2&o=144
Diamond tip=gray body.

These people have gotten production resumed:
http://www.jukebox-world.de/en/Needles/For-Seeburg/
I can't vouch for their quality, but the company has a good rep and the comments from people who have bought them seem positive. These -may- be what Victory is selling.
These original Seeburg-Pickering carts are all hermetically sealed magnetic and age does not affect them. I found a stereo redhead on a dirt floor while we were clearing an op's storage shed in June 1988. I nearly stepped on it. Brought it home washed and tested it for continuity -all ok. Six months later it was in a VL where I used it for two years.

Is there any problem with installing a 3 prong line cord. Thought it might be a good idea just for safety's sake. I know it is not a hot chassis but i do get about 22 volts AC from the chassis to ground and just want to be sure it is OK

Ron and I are of different minds on this but, here in NYC ALL exposed conductive surfaces of appliances in commercial service must show continuity to ground (not that anyone has ever tested mine). Three wire cords are a given.
Small voltage with little current behind it is typical of transformer leakage and I have 78 volts on one VL on location. If I reverse the plug from the control unit I will find a position the shows little-no leakage (about 5 VAC). I simply mark that position on the internal 2 prong plug and then connect the chassis ground to drain whatever is left.

Rob

Rob, Stan,
On pre 3 wire Seeburgs, for some reason the internal three position socket was polarized. I ALWAYS replace both the line cord, and the short power cord going to the WSR/TSR/TSU with a polarized cord, and check them on my bench, which has all GFIC sockets. Can't recall any that would blow the GFI, except for one LPC-480 which had a leaky transformer on the amp.--- Ron Rich

Here are a couple of better picture of the cartridge and needles.
Stan Ski

Hi Stan,
Exactly what you said it was--the one needle I can see, is a gen-U-whine Pickering sapphire. Ron Rich

Doing a little more work on this today. Plugged it in and dropped a dime in (only coin that will work for know) and it picked up a record and then started to make a lot of noise. Noise was coming from the CCU. The credit solenoid was stuck in the up and making the racket. Then i see a little brown wire that had broken off. No problem ( i think) i will just look at the schematic and see where it goes. Then it went downhill. The male part of the 4 pin plug is numbered 1 to 4 CW with 1 being at the top. This little brown wire is connected to pin 3. Which of course is opposite off pin 1. Then i look at the schematic and it shows pin 1 and 4 being opposite. The schematic is a little blurry but i think i am seeing this correct. I think this wire would go to the top part of the switch just next to the wire . Am i correct? I think i might have problems with the coin receiving unit also but one step at a time. Hope this all make sense.
Stan Ski


OK, I traced all of the wires that are on the bottom of the 4 pin plug and i connected the broken wire to the top of the manual credit switch from what i see this is where it belongs. I think the schematic is wrong with the numbering of the wires. Did not make any difference as the credit solenoid is still stuck in the up position and of course is still making noise. Now i have to figure out why this is happening. Any ideas?
Stan Ski

Ron, So what do you have? As far as needles for this? I Tried to send a PM but somehow got screwed up. Always felt if i am going to spend my money i would rather give it to a friend or at least someone that has helped me
Stan