My DS100 restoration thread.

Ron Rich wrote:Hi Brad,
Impossible to tell what it is without hearing--more info needed--
When, do you hear this --start/end of a record, during a record ? -With tone arm lifted from record, or not?
Which needles/cart are you using ? --Tone arm balance/pressure/wiring (OPEN grounds, at TONE arm, when input plug is removed) correct ?
Did you dis-assemble/clean the motor--properly re-oil it/ and all mech points--which brand/type motor is used ? Did you, CORRECTLY, install a new motor coupler (hope you did NOT follow the instructions I saw on eBay !!!)? Is the motor support plug good ? Are all thrust bearings good, and correctly adjusted ?
If you pull the input plug from the amp, while playing a record------does that stop it?
Ron Rich

Ron,

Let me start by saying that I believe it to be mechanical because I swapped tubes from my working 160 as well as the amp from this 100 to my 160 and it played beautifully and my 160 amp in the 100 did the same thing.

1. I do hear the sound at the start/end and during a record, you do not hear it when the tone arm is lifted or when a ghost slot is played.
2. I am using the red-head stereo with gray T needles, I have also tried my red-head from the ds160 as well as swap T-needles and the sound stays.
3. About 4 grams, I need to buy a better gram gauge but that's what it is set to, I have not checked for OPEN grounds I will need to do this)
4. I did not dis-assemble the motor but it is re-oiled, motor couple is on and correctly that was the first thing I checked I also think the motor support plug is good but it is cheap enough I was going to swap it out.
5. The thrust bearings? Are you talking about the one at the end of the turntable shaft and the one at the top of the spiral pin if so they look good as far as adjusting I marked how they came of and put them back on in the same manner. I have not found any information not even in my service manual (I could have missed it for sure) about how to adjust them correctly but would love to see it
6. When the input plug is pulled it stops.

Brad

Hi Brad,
Re-read your Service manual--thrust bearing adjustments are in every manual, at the start of the mech section. Is the TT thrust OK ?
Is the worm/fiber gear properly oiled,and adjusted ?Is there any "free play" in the motor shaft/worm gear section ? Are the TT ball bearings free, or stiff ?
What type of oil did you use--did you re-grease anything, and if so, did you remove ALL of the old stuff ? What type grease did you use ?
Is the record "touching" anything as it turns (top/bottom/sides) ?
Ron Rich

Brad, remove the tall bearing at the top of the worm above the motor. Oil it thoroughly -both bearing and shaft.

I've had that sound on two machines I've used. Vibration occurs due to a glaze on that bearing and gets amplified by vibrating that record.

Goofy stuff, but that is to be expected when dealing with ancient equipment that hasn't been used in decades...and was probably never well taken care of.

Rob

Addendum: A similar effect occurs in the long sleeve bearing in the clutch.

Rob/Ron
So I had a few minutes at lunch to look at this a bit, and I took out the bearing at the worm gear above the motor I had that oiled like crazy and the bearing looks good I then took off the trust screw casting to check out that bearing again and under bright light it does have a flat spot it does roll around in the turntable shaft nice but I cannot for the life of me get it out any suggestions on that one??

Thanks
Brad

Hi Brad,
Iffin you can move it within the shaft--you'z lucky. To remove it-use a good penetrating oil, then take a powerful magnet and "tap it"--it will come out --sooner or later. In case your parts book does not say (MOST don't), it's a .187 steel ball. You still have not stated what you are using for oil/grease ?? Ron Rich

Ron Rich wrote:Hi Brad,
Iffin you can move it within the shaft--you'z lucky. To remove it-use a good penetrating oil, then take a powerful magnet and "tap it"--it will come out --sooner or later. In case your parts book does not say (MOST don't), it's a .187 steel ball. You still have not stated what you are using for oil/grease ?? Ron Rich

Thanks Ron,
For oil I am using the 3 in 1 "Motor Oil" SAE 20 I am not using grease I have the whole mechanism degreased it looks brand new, and I have oiled it per the manual. Do you suggest grease? I figured if I just routinely serviced this thing I would be ok but I would rather do it correctly.

Brad

Hi Brad,
If you have totally removed ALL the old grease, I suggest small amounts, of a GRAPHITE based grease, in the areas the lube guide says to use " Aeroplate"-- See my "Seeburg Mechanism Guide" Ron Rich

Ron,
I have totally removed all the old grease and I do have your Guide so I will follow that.

Thanks
Brad

So I have the new Turn table thrust bearing, and I made sure the top bearing on the worm drive is cleaned and oiled and that did not help with the whoop/wobble sound so I took the motor apart to clean it up thus leading into my question's

1. How do I know if the grommets on the top and the bottom of the motor are good? they seem like they are good but I'm not sure.
2. Is the motor suppose to be in tight when mounted mine is in tight, but can move in a circular motion fairly easily.


Rob,
What is the sleeve bearing in the clutch, in looking at the manual I cannot identify it all I have is the top and bottom thrust balls?


Thanks
Brad

Hi Brad,
Did you follow my advise in the guide about changing/installing the motor coupler ? Did you follow the Service Manual to set-up the worm gear thrust, as well as the other thrust bearings ? Did you grease the new bearing ?
If you manually hold the clamp-arm disc onto the record does the noise diminish, or end ?
As for the "sleeve bearing"-- I dono what he is speaking about either ?? My GUESS would be the cam worm drive gear--seen that cause this problem do to "dirt"- lack of proper oil--- ?
Ron Rich

Motor Coupler is installed correctly per your manual, I followed what little the seeburg manuals had for thrust gear set-up and I did grease both bearings. If I hold the clamp arm onto the record there is no change.

I will just have to re-read and check it all over again.

Hi Brad,
The Service Manual ( if original, or a correctly made copy) is VERY specific about thrust bearing adjustments ?? A few other thoughts, if the above is all correct--could the motor cap have been installed wrong ? Are the motor cap add contacts open in play ? Are the turntable ball bearings frozen ? Is the motor coupler stiff ? Is clutch #4 adjusted correctly ? Ron Rich

My manual is the correct copy from one of the suppliers, the only thrust adjustment I could find was for the TT and clutch. After going through everything again and also what you suggest above with no issues I broke down and bought new motor mount grommets, that seems to have reduced the turntable interference by about 95% so much so that you have to really listen to hear the wooo…wooo….. sound so I think I am happy enough to let it be.

Thanks
Brad