Phonoland

Riley,
What's "common sense" ? -- IMHO, that is an unknown phrase to all "salespersons"--
Ron Rich

Ron Rich wrote:Riley,
What's "common sense" ? -- IMHO, that is an unknown phrase to all "salespersons"--
Ron Rich

To add to that, at times it's not really about "common sense" but actually lack of knowledge about a particular unit.
To the younger generation this is all "new" to them.
But yeah, it's easy to shrug your shoulders and act innocent/dumb about overall condition of something - seemingly it gets you "off the hook", you just want the "sale" so you can move on.

Even current-day manufacturers pull this stunt, in an attempt to save money.
For instance, Dell computers, Samsung tv's, among others, all knew about the famous "bad capacitor" problems in their products several years back, and still charged the customer for replacement motherboards, etc.
God forbid they admit fault, and do the proper thing - like recalling bad equipment!

MattTech wrote:

ami-man wrote:If you have an understanding of the correct terminology then at least we have a chance of helping you with your issues.
Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

Alan, all that is nice but....
The uneducated/untrained/uninformed will always be confused as to specific parts, etc.
The internet is limited in its ability to convey specific information to others.
It's an inherent problem, and always will be.
Even a highly experienced tech cannot determine a problem from hundreds of miles away.
How can he, if a part is bent out of shape or damaged?
The "newbie" doesn't know the part is bent, being untrained.
All the "online" diagnosis in the world isn't going to solve the problem.
How can a trained tech know if a certain transistor, etc, has leakage - his test leads cannot reach to another part of the world.
And certainly a newbie doesn't know such things.
A missing spacer/washer from a previous attempt at repair by someone, and critical to operation, isn't obvious to either the DIY'er or the tech at the other end of the internet.
And all the 2 dimensional photos in the world, some blurry, cannot convey the same info across the internet.

This is why I don't frustrate myself by attempting to discuss complex mechanical assemblies or procedures to people who know nothing of such things.

The tried and true method of hiring a trained tech to perform service was and still is the best road to go down.
It was the way to go about things before the internet, and saves a lot of time, error, and frustration.
Sure, these techs are scarce, but spending time to locate one "online" or through the phonebook isn't impossible.

I agree with your premise but I disagree with some of your philosophy. It IS difficult to help someone like me on the Net through a few posts and yet the problem might be simple enough. Don't write off all of us newbies, some of us have a lot of comparable experience.

Now addressing the task of finding a tech, well that's a roulette wheel at best. I called a guy recommended here and he talked a good line. And he could send me a guy in a month or 2, he'd call. You know how that went.

Coming on the forum at least gives some direction. Be patient, this forum has been good to me. I won't be taking anyone's tech job anytime soon.

...............if a "newbie" can not communicate using terms (in the factory ) service manual, I really do not have a clue................

Ron , if you have been at this for over 40 years it looks like you could easly figure out many things people say just by your expriences .

If someone asked me about the springs that are on each side of the tone arm or the rubber thing on the motor shaft on a seeburg i would be able to understand those type things .

Hi Ken,
I would think so too ! But I have found that I tend to make assumptions, that many times turn out wrong--therefore, if unclear, I refrain from making an ass, out of myself--some what !!
Ron Rich

Well Hello To All.
i'm new here & thought this is the place to start for a Newbie ..
some people here may know of me from Sth. Australia ..
apprenticed as an electro-machanical engineer in heavy industry ..
in short trained to service all things electrical & mechanical ..
now over past 10 years turned my attention to jukeboxes ..
any way will try to help those in need of an answer to a question ..

Hi SlickClick,

That is somewhat harsh.

Anyone who does not have a manual for a jukebox they own is somewhat short sighted.
Yes new owners have to start somewhere and forums such as this helps them to get in contact with fellow owners and proffesionals who can help them when they get stuck.

With a manual and fully reading it you become familiar with the terminology used and the way the machine operates, knowing this helps when describing a fault on the forum.

We all try to help anyone on the forum, but name calling does not help anyone.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

Alan put it in focus nicely.

The makers of any equipment went to the trouble of providing manuals regarding operation and service - they of course should know their equipment best, since they are the ones who produced it.
In Ron's case, his manuals are written towards troubleshooting things that the original manuals could not possibly have forseen, due to aging, along with years of hands-on experience as a professional servicer in the field.
So in that respect, they are a highly valuable tool worth investing in.

Following an online conversation that I had with a "friend" earlier today, I figured that I would add to this thread as a relative newbie to jukeboxes.

First and Foremost, THANK YOU to everyone who has given me guidance and input so far. Despite what may seem to be insurmountable odds, I have been able to bring 3 jukeboxes back to life so far and have discovered the existence of a great void with regard to knowledgeable and AVAILABLE jukebox technicians in my area (Coastal Carolina, USA).

After working on arcade games as a self-taught hobbyist for close to ten years, I recently purchased a non-working Rockola 445. As is most likely typical of such purchases, I realized quickly that I was in WAY over my head and began to scramble to locate reliable sources of information online, first on the Book of Face, which led me here on the suggestion of a fellow arcade enthusiast (Thanks for the intro Mike!)

So I fumbled with terminology, and like most newbies, made up for what I lacked in patience (waiting for digital manuals to arrive) with sheer enthusiasm, which as we all know is not always for the best. Over the past three months or so I have learned a lot and hopefully also developed a little more temperance with regard to getting as much information FIRST prior to digging into a new project.

Which brings us to the conversation that I mentioned at the top of this post. My "friend" (that status is currently under review) basically told me that I had absolutely no business touching these machines due to my lack of training in the fields of electronics and audio tube technology. The vehemence of his statements took me off guard and to be honest, put me a bit on the defensive. Per m personal philosophy, I removed myself from the exchange but it left me with a sour taste in my mouth, as if I had somehow broken an unspoken rule of "Though Shalt Not Touch Pretty Shiny Toys Without Proper Training".

For the record, I am a trained marine biologist who has worked in the public aquarium field of and on since 1995. I have also spent close to ten years serving as the primary public liaison for a major outdoor company here in the US. As you will note, that includes ZERO formal training or experience in electronics (with the exception of some basic repair and maintenance experience with water pump systems). When I first stuck my toe in the world of jukeboxes, I inquired, searched and pretty much set out on a quest to locate a proper course in jukebox repair and service. It will probably come as no surprise to anyone here that I was unable to locate any such vocational opportunities. Though I can be dense sometimes, I consider myself to be fairly intelligent and capable of learning new skills when properly instructed. The lack of availability of such instruction is frustrating. However, it won't discourage me from continuing to work on these amazing machines and learn as much as I can.

I guess the point of this post is to encourage other newbies not to give up, or give in, if somebody is telling you that you are not qualified to work on a jukebox. By all means, be diligent in your research, be patient and WAIT FOR THOSE DAMNED MANUALS. Learn from the more experienced members of this community and don't let the tech (or others) keep you from reaching your own potential. Like all other learning experiences, it's a process.

Very well stated--I have one thought to add to it however--
Use Caution--Jukeboxes ( or anything electro/mechanical), can cause a lot of "bodily harm", and in some cases, may kill one, who lacks knowledge of high voltage, or even the dangers of a mechanical item running "amuck" and causing injury--I have seen too many people injured in my lifetime--certainly do not want to be the cause of that--ever !! Ron Rich

As someone who has felt the wrath of an arcade monitor discharging through my body, I could not agree with you more on that point Rich!

Dane