Seeburg Fleetwood

Hi Guys, Restoring a '65 Fleetwood........couple of issues I could do with some help for.

Machine is working well and sounds v good but won't make all selections, only play A-G.........nos 1 to 7

I have 2 of these machines so I can swap the parts about. So I did. Put the tormat selector on other machine.........didn't work fully, Control Centre did, Tormat memory did, Album Pricing unit did.............so looks like Tormat Selector. I have cleaned the contacts but nothing has made it play the selections it doesn't like. It just plays A-G 1-7.............any ideas?

The other issue which I've just caused.......... slowing the play speed down on the Autospeed caused a spark............now scans picks record up but motor stops....looks like I've blown something..............and I don't think its a fuse, they are all ok?

Any help really appreciated......Ta! Stuart

Just a bit more info on the non playing of selections. When pressing the buttons that it won't play, it scans ok just doesn't stop to pick them up and play them, then goes back to rest. The battery test was normal made every selection play.

Hi,
Sounds like you have an open in the TES between the "G" and "H"in the letter bank, and between the "7 & 8", in the number bank.
How did "slowing the speed down--cause a spark" ? Sparks ain't no good ! Where did you see this "spark" ? Ron Rich

Hi Ron, thanks for the reply...........I will check the open on the TES.....don't get any selections BTW on the right bank L-V at all?

I had the strobe disc in as motor was running fast, just adjusting down and turning with a screwdriver the speed control when the little control unit parted company with the back of the auto speed unit and must have gone to earth, I just saw a little spark from the control and the motor stopped, Isn't running now in the play position but scans and picks up the record ok. The spark was from the speed control as it earthed against the unit body.

Checked continuity between all the selections no reading for any breaks.

The issue with the speed control is in the speed control unit...............fitted the one from the other machine and mech now working in play position so looks like something has gone in the speed control unit


Stuart

Stuart, those pots are notorious for developing dead spot on the windings and erratic behavior.

The pot itself is only 4 ohms and one side goes to ground, so it is unlikely that having one terminal touch the chassis would be a problem.

The pot itself my now be open. You can try subbing any pot with a wattage of a few watts and any impedance of 2 to as much as 20 ohms. The only drawback from a larger pot is that it will make adjusting accurately too touchy...but for test it is OK.

Alternately, you can use a fixed resistor of 1-5 ohms and several watts just to test.

While having the terminals touch chassis should not have caused damage, if they touched a higher current potential there is the possibility that one of the windings on the two transformers it is connected to might have been burned out. If that has happened you will be looking for a replacement speed unit.

Rob/NYC

Hi Stuart,
To check the AS pot, just jump the two wires, on the pot--it should run fast--but run--
Which code AS is it ?
As for the TES--it "hastabe" open--did you check the jumper between the two "letter halves"?
Ron Rich

Ron.....thanks for your help here. I took the pot apart to attach a jumper as you suggested......put it all back together and before I could jump it with the mech in play it started to run the motor......albeit slowly it's about 3 degree C in my garage here in Scotland and as you know..... these things need to warm up... but that's normal so the pot still works no doubt as you say erratic.........but really good, no damage.....I'll take more care when adjusting that next time.

I take it for the TES the Jumper for the letter halves are the last single wire on the top right of the A-K side and the first single wire top left of L-V ( White or cream with red/pink stripe).....I've got continuity there. I will go back and check all the connections again....what you are saying about open makes all the sense..I just can't find anything wrong right now.

Many thanks again for your time and help
Stuart

Stuart,
"3 C" ( about 37.5 F), is cold to me--Most years, it never gets that cold here! The Bodine motor is designed to operate at a minimum of 10 C (50F). "Normal" temp, after operation for awhile, is 60C ABOVE room temp--Will burn you, if you hold on to it !!
Check that TES from the A to V switch--could well be that the last switch in the first bank is failing, or the first switch, in the last bank is failing--- Ron Rich

Hi Ron, update on this TES....... having a close look at the wiring behind the button contacts looks as if at one time there were something akin to jumpers attached (bits of wire visible from the soldered connections through a magnifying glass)...these had all been cut off..........so I soldered them back on in the form of jumpers........Bingo all selections work.

Don't know why they were there in the first place a spare U/S TES I have doesn't have them..or why they were cut off.........I'm sure that wasn't a factory finish!! Anyway all works now, that's the aim.

I have set the strobe to correct speed and insulated and taped that speed pot up and put it inside the speed control unit......if I have to adjust the speed I know where it is and that it can't do much harm in the meantime.

I've read many of your articles and bits of info whilst rebuilding these Seeburgs, they have all been really helpful written in no nonsense language, easy for the less knowledgeable to understand

Thanks you very much for your consideration and help.

Awra best
Stuart

Hi Stuart,
Can't say on the TES--never had that "experience"-- glad you "found it" !
You still failed to inform me as to the "code" of that AS ?
Ron

Sorry Ron, It's a code 'B' 230volt

Thanks again Stuart

hi Stuart,
I update them to code C. Easy to do--just add wire from CASE of speed control pot, to common "grounds", on the relay. ( Some schematics show this incorrectly, as going to the pot wiper--WRONG !!! )
If you did not "snap-off" the mounting tabs, just re-mount it at the same place-re-bend the tabs--
Ron Rich

Hi Ron, still got the mounting Tabs.will give that a go.sounds straightforward, Many thanks

Stuart

Just on the continuing saga of the selection probs. on this Fleetwood, I eventualy changed the TES for another I obtained as I suspected wiring on the first one was possibly damaged. This one does occasionally work but I have noticed that the ceramic resistor top one of the left pair opposite side from the latch solenoid becomes very hot after about 10 mins, the selections then appear to scan but don't move to the play position. I put the other TES back on and the resistor in there did exactly the same thing........any Ideas guys?

If you are speaking of the 10 watt 100 ohm resistor, yep--it should "get very hot" after ten minutes-- that is in the latch bar solenoid circuit, which was not intended to be "left on" for "10 minutes"-- this would indicate that someone has modified the APU-3 to "free play"--NOT a good idea, IMHO.
The above would have absolutely no influence in the "selection process", what so ever !
I do not understand your terminology--what do you mean when you say "appear to scan but don't move to the play position" ? Ron Rich

Hi Ron,

It always scans when a selection is made but only occassionally stops and picks the record to play (if you make a selection whilst the mech is scanning for a previous selection it often stops there and then and picks up whatever record it is in positon to play.... not the one you selected (thought it might have been something to do with that 65 ohm resistor getting hot)...... the control unit looks original and unmolested so I suppose might need attention.

and yes the APU was on free play when machine arrived, the coin mech wasn't fitted but I have it and obviously not connected with the multi plug to the pricing unit. The 'modification' to the APU is a dob of silicon to stop the add arm next to the credit ratchet from debiting plays...........I don't know if this is an appropriate way of getting free play or not

The hot resistor is one of a pair on the opposite side of the unit from the latch solenoid 100 Ohm one(Part No. *(81133) .........the pair of these resistors are 65 Ohm 10 amp (part no's 81178).. top one of the pair gets hot ..bottom one stays cool. the latch solenoid is not energised all the time and that 100 ohm resistor isn't hot. The latch solenoid doesn't appear to be in play at all as both number and letter selection buttons have to be pressed at the same time for a play and I haven't seen the latch solenoid work at any time.

There is another 'Fleetwood' close by to me and that one requires both buttons to be pressed at the same time too? I've asked the owner about it , he didn't really know much about it other than it has been like that since he got it years ago and has been very reliable, I might investigate how that one is on free play, bet it came from the same source as mine and their might be a dob of Silicon in the APU!!!

Regards Stuart