Seeburg SSP160 Won't Play Until Warm

So I have an SPS160 which when initially turned on scans twice and won't play a selection. After being on for about the 30 minutes it will begin playing selections.

I found one person who was experiencing the same issue and apparently they corrected it by replacing a transistor on the power supply board in the DCC. See links below.

http://alt.collecting.juke-boxes.narkiv ... -warmed-up
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... rfrdk3-lvs

Has anybody else seen this issue before and if so how did you correct the problem? Please let me know.

Thanks,
Kent

Hi Kent,
There can be a number of reasons for this problem, other then a "transistor" on the board. I wrote a whole 25 + page " Seeburg MicroLog Trouble Shooting Guide" that covers that, and all MicroLog models ( PM me if you wish to purchase a copy).--Main thing is to check voltages on the DCC test points-- (-) 13 vdc MUST be within 1 volt---(-) 27, within 2 volts. See schematic (latest version !!), and go from there--Ron Rich

Thanks Ron. Not only do I have your microlog troubleshooting guide, but I also have your mech guide. I also have both of Tony Miller's books (SHP Amps and Black and Gray Boxes) and the Seeburg manuals. I think I'm good in the manual department.

I did use your microlog book to troubleshoot this issue. I used phono procedure chart #3 on page 20 which indicated there is burning/pitting on the detent swtich (page 21, item 4).

I pretty sure this isn't the problem, but I'm not sure where else to look in the microlog troubleshooting guide. Can you point me in the right direction?

Hi Kent,
Thanks for the guide purchases !!
I assume that it failed test 3.3-- and that the 2M-1 contact is making well-- --
If so, is the detent switch clean, and adjusted correctly-- I also assume no one has incorrectly, replaced the choke on the detent switch--and that the read-out contacts that ride the frog, under the TMU are good AND adjusted correctly? If that's all good, did you read the DCC service notes in the Tbl Shooting Guide ? My guess is that it is C-04, that is failing, or the high (write-in/read-out) voltage, is failing. NOTE: A loose 1/8 amp fuse, can also cause this ) --Ron Rich

Ron,

Back at it. Been out of town for a while.

Yes, it did fail 3.3 and I cleaned the Tormat contacts along with the detent switch contacts.

I have not read the DCC service notes, but I will do that. I did take a reading of voltages at the test points on the DCC. Anything unusual?

-27 = -27.26
-13 = -13.34
+27 = 25.73
Write = 123.2
Read = 123.2
RL = 123.2
TR = 25.74

I plan on taking more readings after about 45 minutes when the jukebox starts to work again.

Thanks for the help.

Hi Kent,
Are you using the type of meter specified in the Tbl Shooting Guide? Is the mech scanning, as you read the RO voltage, as per the guide ?
All are within spec. as posted--unless you were scanning the mech as you checked RO voltage ? Ron Rich

Thanks Ron.

I'm using a DMM Fluke 179. Should I be using something else?

The Mech was not scanning when I checked the RO voltage. I will check that voltage again.

Kent,
Yep-- Read the TBL Shooting Guide, DCC Service notes--
Ron Rich

Thanks Ron, but I need some help. I reread the DCC service notes and there is nothing about my problem or what type of multimeter I should be using. Is this some kind of riddle that is meant to be confusing? Confused that's all. Thanks for the help.

I took voltage readings again tonight after letting the jukebox warm up for about 60 minutes. As suspected it started working fine (selecting & playing selections) after warming up. The mech was not scanning when I took the readings below.

Voltage = Not Working / Working
- 27 = -27.26 / -27.45
-13 = -13.34 / -13.47
+27 = 25.73 / 25.98
Write = 123.2 / 125.3
Read = 123.2 / 125.2
RL = 123.2 / 125.2
TR = 25.74 / 25.97

Kent, in electronic circuits this is classic aging capacitor behavior. Since these machines use a Tormat you can try the battery test to narrow down the fault to either readout (where I suspect it is) or write-in. Do this for 'science" -but be prepared to replace most of the capacitors in that control unit if you want reliable operation.

The LS3, USC-1&2 and SPS were -very- popular here in NYC. By the mid-eighties they were being retired, often for non-technical reasons, but if faults were present it was typical Tormat problems of contacts and rarely either write-in or pulse amp related. Now, add another thirty years to that and you are looking at capacitors in the electronics.

Some component cooler spray (Freon) can be used to target the faulty part and this will work equally for suspect transistors, but caps are the likely suspects here.

Rob-NYC

Hi Kent,
If you have the 2nd edition of my Seeburg MicroLog Trouble shooting Guide--- ( If you have the 1st edition, let me know)--
See "procedure chart 3.5", for that info--
Change C-04 cap, as per DCC service notes.
Ron Rich

Rob-NYC,

Appreciate the reply. My next step will be to replace all the electrolytic caps on the power supply board in the DCC. It's pretty obvious based on your feedback and Ron's that's where my problem lies. I'm pretty familiar with the problem of old dried out caps. I restore arcade games from the late 70s/80s and I've capped many an arcade monitor.

Ron,

Thanks for the reply and I must apologize. I now see that your troubleshooting guide clearly calls for an analog meter. Missed that completely. Unfortunately I don't have one so I will need to pick one up. My next step is to cap the DCC power supply board which I'm suspecting will solve my problem.

Questions.
You suggested replacing C-04. Looking at the schematic I believe your referring to cap C3104 in the pulse detector circuit. C3104 is a 20uf 50v cap. Is that correct?
Who would you suggest purchasing a cap kit from or do you prefer to just buy caps as needed?
Why won't a DMM work? What am I missing?

My troubleshooting guide was published on May 10, 2002 so I have the first edition.

Thanks again.
Kent

Hi Kent,
No problem--on the meter, a good analog (10-20K ohms/volt--damped meter)) is needed as the digitals are too fast to get any sensible reading, as it is scanning--Digital's are OK for all other readings.
Yes-C-04 is C3104--20/50--all caps in the DCC are in the "3100 series", as Seeburg numbered caps by the unit in which they were installed--Amps use the 2100 series numbers--
On Caps--I stock all of them, for that unit--I purchase in bulk, but when needed, for something I don't do to many of, I do purchase an occasional kit, from one of the suppliers listed above--Ron Rich

Thanks Ron.

So I purchased a cap kit from Jukebox Friday Night, but I have a question.

While the board appears to be reasonably unmolested, it does appear c3105 was replaced with an incorrect cap. The cap at c3105 is 470uf/50v while the schematic calls for 300uf cap. The cap kit provided by Jukebox Friday Night has a 330uf/50v cap for c3105. I assume this cap will work. What do you think?

Thanks.