WANTED: 1946 Magnavox Belvedere

ManorAvenue · by **ManorAvenue** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:01 am

Looking for 1946 Magnavox Belvedere model mahogany floor model radio/phonograph. I had the one that belonged to my maternal grandparents, and due to my feelings toward my grandfather for his unkind treatment of my mother, at the time of her passing two years ago, I sold the Magnavox and got rid of my grandfather's other personal effects. I regret selling the Magnavox; should have associated it with my grandmother instead, but I can't undo what was done. Have tried to find the same Magnavox here locally in Fresno, CA, but have been unsuccessful. Please let me know if anyone knows of one such model available, hopefully in good original condition, and preferrably in California or Nevada, but I am not opposed to paying for shipping from a greater distance for the right one. Just in case our family's actual Belvedere might be lurking about somewhere, it can be identified by the tag from THE WHITE HOUSE, San Francisco department store, which was either on the radio dial face or inside the phonograph compartment; I cannot recall exact location, but I recall THE WHITE HOUSE being in one of those two locations. Thank you -- George

Record-changer · by **Record-changer** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:47 pm

You might have fun finding that. Manufacturers were still recovering from the almost forced conversion to war producton. There might not be very many copies of 1946 models around. And many models from that vintage were "kitbashed" a few years later to accept the new 33 and 45 formats, by replacing the record changer and modifying the amplifier circuitry.

ManorAvenue · by **ManorAvenue** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:53 pm

The Belvedere did play 33 and 78 speeds; I guess many may have been changed over to accommodate 45 speed. At any rate, if it is meant to be, I guess I will find it!

Record-changer · by **Record-changer** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:21 pm

Two-speed record players were not available in 1946. The LP was not released until 1948. Two-speed players appeared in late 1948, and persisted partway into 1950. But the two-speed 256 player was a drop-in replacement for the single-speed 56 player Magnavox used, and dealers back then performed upgrades. By the end of 1950, most record changers were 3-speed.

If yours had a Webcor 256 changer, it may have had a little spring on a post under the turntable. Placing this spring on the 33 step of the motor drive gave you 45.

ManorAvenue · by **ManorAvenue** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:26 pm

All I know is, the cabinet housing my grandparents' Magnavox is identical to that pictured in the 1946 ads for the Belvedere model. It did not have the Webcor turntable. I too thought that LP 33 speed was introduced postwar, but I have had information from those who were around during that era that tells me LPs predated the postwar era. At any rate, whatever year the Magnavox actually may have been, it is identical to that pictured in the 1946 magazine ads and it played only the 33 and 78 speeds.

Record-changer · by **Record-changer** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:36 pm

There were 33 rpm records before 1948, but most of them were not in consumer hands.

1. The Vitaphone system for movie sound was the first use of 33 rpm.

2. RCA introduced a 33 rpm record in 1932, but the records wore out after a few plays. The records were sold for a few months, then the system was abandoned. But only RCA and GE ever produced any home turntables for these.

3. The 33 rpm speed was used for the distribution of syndicated spoken radio shows, because the record (with a 2-mil transcription groove) could hold 15 minutes of audio. This was the major use of that speed before 1948. So most radio station turntables had both speeds.

ManorAvenue · by **ManorAvenue** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:50 pm

Yes, I knew that most of the prerecorded radio shows during the WWII era were recorded at 33-1/3 speed, but I thought those ten-inch LPs were available to consumers prior to 1948. It was my understanding that 1948 was when the 12-inch format LP came into being. Had no idea that an LP was experimented with as early as 1932.

It could be that my grandparents' Magnavox was later than 1946; maybe Magnavox made the same cabinet model for more than just the one year, although I do remember my grandfather saying it was 1945-46 when he bought the unit, just about the time the civil production was getting back into the swing. At any rate, I will continue my search.

ManorAvenue · by **ManorAvenue** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:55 pm

The 1946 Magnavox came up for sale, and I took another look at the photos of it, comparing the front to our family's Magnavox. I see now, the "ring-shaped" handles on the front of the cabinet are full circles, whereas our Magnavox had handles that were half circles and slightly wider. The radio face is slightly different, and while the turntable on the machine for sale is identical, I don't see the lever for adjusting the speed from 33 to 78 and vice versa. Other than that, the exterior of the cabinet is identical. It appears Grandpa was wrong about his idea as to when he purchased the Magnavox and you are absolutely correct. I'm waiting for confirmation from the seller as to whether the Magnavox she has for sale is or is not a two-speed player. I have a feeling this may be as close as I can get to our family's Magnavox at this "late date," so I may just decide to be satisfied with a slightly earlier model. Thanks again for your notes about the differences in the two years' models.

Record-changer · by **Record-changer** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:59 am

The 33 1/3 rpm long-playing record was announced to the public by Columbia Records on June 21, 1948.

At that time, just as was done with 78 rpm records, the 10'' 33 was intended for popular recordings, and the 12'' 33 was to be used for classical music. But by 1955, the 12'' 33 had assumed both roles, because people liked having 12 songs on an album instead of 8.

''The Voice of Frank Sinatra'' was the first LP released in the 10'' 33 rpm format in 1948. It had been previously released as a 4-disc 10'' 78 rpm album (a book of records, from which we get the phrase "record album").

As I said earlier, in the 1940s and early 1950s, record player companies sold 2-speed and 3-speed upgrade turntables which would drop into the cabinet to replace the single speed units they had come with.

In the 1940s, Magnavox was using the Webster-Chicago model 56 turntable. Webster later made the 2-speed model 256 in 1948, and the 3-speed model 356 in 1949. The bases of these turntables were identical, so any of them would fit int the same console. Webster also made a version of it's model 100 (introduced in 1950) that fit the same mount.

It's quite likely that your grandfather did buy the console in 1946, and then had the upgrade kit installed.

ManorAvenue · by **ManorAvenue** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:40 am

Thanks for the note and the history. I'm now left wondering whether your theory of the upgraded turntable is a possiblity, or whether it was just a 1948 model Magnavox as opposed to a 1946. From the two cabinets that have come up for auction on Ebay, the 1948 is identical with the identical pull handles on the front of the cabinet, but the turntable in our family's Magnavox was not at all like the one in the 1948 on Ebay; the turntable was like the one in the 1946 on Ebay, except it was definitely a two-speed turntable. The 1948 on Ebay had the Webcor turntable that you speak of, which I recognize as being very similar if not identical to the turntable in my Marconi floor model at home. At any rate, maybe it the 1948 model (judging from cabinet exterior) with the non-Webcor turntable? I will never know at this late date as I am the only one around who would even remember its existence. Thanks again for the history and the possibilties to consider.

Record-changer · by **Record-changer** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:31 am

Photos of the 1946 Webster-Chicago 56 and the 1949 Webster-Chicago 356 are on my website, at:

http://geocities.com/midimagic@sbcgloba ... angerv.htm

Other changers made at the same time are on that page, and the other connected pages (I sent you to page 2).

ManorAvenue · by **ManorAvenue** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:35 am

I tried to view the photos, but the link took me to a "PAGE DOES NOT EXIST" message.

Record-changer · by **Record-changer** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:37 am

That's because I was busy trying to remove the typogoofical error. It's fixed now.

Record-changer · by **Record-changer** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:43 am

OOOOOPS! Those are Webster-Chicago changers. They didn't change their name to Webcor until the early 1950s.

Record-changer · by **Record-changer** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:56 am

More info:

The Webster-Chicago 256 2-speed changer (and the early 356) had the speed control in the back left corner. It had two positions, 'STD' and 'SLOW'.

An accessory kit introduced in 1949 added the 45 speed to the 256 and the early 356 with a kludge:

You removed the turntable, and found a little stud next to the motor shaft with a little spring wrapped around it. To get 45, you removed the spring from the stud, and placed it on the 33 step of the motor spindle. The spring increases the diameter of the motor shaft just enough to make the turntable turn at 45. Then you put the turntable back and selected "SLOW".

To get back to 33, you did the same procedure, but you took the spring off the motor shaft and put it on the stud.

If you think that was fun, you should see the bag of tricks you needed to play 7'' records on the 356. I have one from a Magnavox console..

A pic of the Webster-Chicago 100 is found on page 3 of my article.