New to Jukes - Working on a Rowe R91

Hello, so this is my first technical question post, so be kind.

I have several (5 so far!) jukes that I am currently working on, including a Rowe R91. I was told that the machine was working until recently and that it began to exhibit issues with the 45 carriage spinning. I presumed that this was most likely a lubrication issue and figured it would be an easy fix.

Well I plugged the machine in today finally and discovered a few things:

1) Upon powering up the machine, I get a "Error 4" readout on the control computer. The record carriage (hopefully am using the correct terminology here) does not spin to locate the starting position when the machine is powered up.

2) After a few seconds, the Error 4 message goes away. Then when a credit is added and a selection is made, an "error 1" message appears on the control computer and nothing else happens.

I have ordered a full Rowe manual CD from ebay, but would love to get started working on this thing (and the other 3 non-working machines that I currently have!). I tried to search for these error messages both here and online in general with no luck. So any assistance prior to the receipt of the manuals is greatly appreciated.

And though I might seem a bit nuts taking on 4 project jukes at once, I DID also pick up a working R81 so I have something to listen to while I plug away on the other machines.

Thanks in advance for any input. I am certain you will be seeing quite a bit of me in the future.

Dane

So in speaking with a friend who knows jukes pretty well I learned that the error messages are both related to a dead battery within the CCC. So I picked up replacements and place to install those this evening. With this said, would doing so likely also fix the record carriage issue (not rotating)? Hoping that this will be a simple fix and I can move on to the next machine.

One other question regarding replacing the battery in the CCC on this juke - The connector was connected directly to the battery by something other than solder. After wrestling with it for quite a while last night, the thing actually busted apart due to the heat of the soldering gun I was using. Feel kind of lucky that I didn't get myself into more trouble i.e. exploding battery. I was finally able to disconnect the battery by desoldering the pins, but I could not get it away from the actual connector. I plan to head to Radio Shack today in hopes that they will have a battery connector that will work with 2325 3v battery that I removed from the board.

Are these batteries always such a pain to replace and has anybody else used a modern battery holder to replace the soldered-in originals?

Also, PLEASE somebody respond to this thread, if for no other reason to say hello. Starting to feel like I am talking to myself.

Dane

Hi Duane,
The batteries used in that unit were of several brands, and types, and most likely yours has been changed before ! They are soldered to the PC board, and the leads must be removed from the board--they are not meant to be "pulled apart" !
Radio Shack ?? Still have one in Myrtle Beach--If so, I think I was in that one once---??
Ron Rich

Hey Rin, thanks for the reply. I've been working on arcades & pins for a long time and have never come across a battery secured to the pins like that. WTH do they use to glue those things on? Also, without a standard battery mount, how do you install the replacements?

Sorry RON not Rin

Hi Duane,
Rin, Ron--no problem--just don't call me late to dinner ! BTW--You can edit your posts here easily--just click the brown arrow, at the bottom of each post!
I can't visualize what "battery" was installed in that unit--most of the originals looked like an over-sized AA cell, with pigtail wires soldered to the board ?? Rin/Ron Rich

Hi Dane,

Welcome to the forum.

When ever I have to replace the 3 volt cell on these CCC I fit a disk type battery holder (the type found on most PC motherboards) this makes replacement of the barrery in years to come so much easier.

If you have not bought a manual then do so, one of instructions in the manual is how to load the factory defaults into the CCC after battery replacement.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

Ron,

Yes, the battery was the type you mentioned. What confused me was that the tabs that are soldered into the board were actually glued directly to the battery. I am used to seeing the mounts that Alan mentioned that allow you to simply slip the old batter out and the new one in, no soldering! And YES, we actually still have TWO Radio Shack stores in the Myrtle Beach area. Sadly, they only carry the battery holders that fit the 2303 size batteries and not the larger 2325 versions that are used in the CCC.

Alan, I presume you purchase these holders online, yes?

No the Batteries that I was able to locate were labeled CR 2325 instead of BR 2325. I presume that these are interchangeable (or so the folks at RS told me). Please confirm. I did find BR 2325 batteries with the connected tabs online via mouser and one-source. I will be ordering several of those today for future use.

Finally, as I think I mentioned in my first post, I have ordered the Rowe manuals on CD. Just waiting for them to arrive! Sadly, I am not a patient man.

Hi Duane,
The letters on the battery indicate only the manufactures name -- same as on mini lamps, so, a battery marked A B 2100, is the equal to a battery marked XY 2100. You can use any 3 volt or more, battery in these CCC's--size is no problem.
As for the "online manuals"--good luck--I have not seen good "online copies" yet !!
Ron Rich

I was hoping that the manuals would arrive in the mail today, but no luck. Installed the CCC with the new battery and now getting Error 1 on startup and another one (E54 I think) once the box warms up. The record carriage does not spin upon powering up. Guess I will just wait for the manuals to arrive. Man am I impatient. Oh well, I have one R81 running reliably and two separate RockOlas to work on in the meantime

So I dug back into this machine today. After replacing the battery and reprogramming the CCC I was still experiencing two issues.

The first, and conceivably most simple of the two issues was that the CCC kept showing an Error 1 on powering up, even though the new data (such as my 3 digit log-in and pricing schedule) were retained in the memory. Is there some way that I have to clear errors from the CCC once an issue has been rectified?

The more troubling, and complicated, issue is that when the service switch is put back into the "on" position, I get an Error 30 message on the CCC. Also, I noticed that when the Scan button was pushed, I could hear a gear turning, but the record magazine would not turn. Upon closer inspection I noticed that the gear attached to the record magazine was not longer nested with the gear that causes it to spin. (see picture below)



I have a copy of the manual and looked up the error code #30 and the first item on the troubleshooting list is "clean magazine gear" (and in my case "reseat magazine gear"). However, after looking at the parts manual, I cannot for the life of me figure out how to 1) Remove the magazine to get at the gear to clean it and 2) reposition the gear so that it sits correctly in the controlling gear (sorry could not locate the proper term for the second gear here). I presume that I need to pull off the magazine, clean the gears and reseat everything in its proper place. How to do that is where I am stuck at the momoent.

Once that is done, The troubleshooting section goes on to suggest adjusting the "Mechanism Control Idndex ("1") pot. I presume this is the same pot that is described in the Optical Switch Index section under Maintenance in the manual, correct?

For better or worse, this is the first time I have completely removed the mech from one of my jukes, so I am definitely experiencing a learning curve here.

On the errors--yes, you can, and should clear them--see the service manual, near the end of the instructions for the CCC it shows how that's done---
On that gear--I can't imagine how that could be aligned that way--either the motor supports have been bent, the motor "shelf" is bent(?), or maybe the basket has somehow shifted ? To remove the whole motor assembly, just remove the screws ( un-plug motor/coil first), that are used to "adjust" it. Ron Rich

Dane, first make sure that the gear on the motor assembly is turning. If the motor itself runs but that gear does not it indicates a broken gearbox -rare but it can happen.

Check also that the sprag solenoid pulls-in when the gear motor is energized.

The "clean gear" error is due to the fact that the mech logic is not getting pulses from the opto sensor that counts the gear teeth to index the magazine.

I found a good pic of the sprag unit: http://www.jukeboxparts.com/misc%20parts%20001.JPG

Do -not- adjust the opto sensor LED current unless you understand the procedure -it is simple but setting the exciter LED current too high will greatly shorten its life.

I am on shaky ground here as I only owned 5 Rowe machines of this era (R90-91 & 92) and all the service data left with these machines in 1995-6. They were the best sounding jukeboxes I ever operated but the locations wanted CDs and Rowe was stopping support, so after a few years in storage they were sold to the home market.

Rob-NYC

So I pulled off the belt assembly and was able to gently realign the motor and magazine gears (by pulling the magazine away from the motor approximately 1/4") so that the teeth are lined up correctly. however, the magazine can easily slide toward the motor, resulting in misaligned gears once again. I am still confused as to how to fully remove the magazine so that I can clean the both sets of gears.

As far as the motor gear goes, it did spin when everything was still connected within the juke (I have the entire mech in my living room away from the machine as a whole right now). The magazine was not spinning due to the misalignment of the two gears. I am not sure if something on the magazine or motor got bent, resulting in this issue. It's almost as if a bushing between the magazine and motor assembly is missing. Somebody definitely has taken this thing apart previously as I discovered that the motor control mechanism was installed upside down in the metal plate that holds it in place.

I also noted that most of the 45's installed had long cross-groove scratches in them. At first I could not figure out why this was the case. Then I realized that the scratches most likely were a result of the plastic record guides rubbing along the record as the transfer arm moved record from and back to the magazine. I tried to figure out a way to adjust the width between the two guides, but could not figure out how to do so.