Phonoland

EBAY 230216099504

I JUST FOUND A NEEDLE IN A HAYSTACK FOR ONLY 50 EUROS
IT MADE MY DAY

BERT

Bert,

Looks like quite a haul! Congratulations.

Regards,
J.

Hi Bert

Actually, whilst I agree with Neophone that you have inherited quite a haul there, I don't think the soundbox that you think is an EMG is actually anything of the sort? There was a soundbox made in brass of the EMG type with 2 flat end springs exactly the same as your soundbox. It was made under licence from EMG and sold by the Music Exchange (I think???)....something like an Astra No. 6?

EMG soundboxes had curled springs before the 4-spring type developed for the Mk 10a and subsequent 10b machines and they were usually nickel plated and not plain brass. Early soundboxes were available with 2 springs (following on from the modified Exhibition type) and plain brass finish but these were not the same pattern as the one pictured which emulates the later EMG type. EMG only made 1 soundbox from 1930 onwards with 2 flat springs and this was for the Mark 4 and Mark 9 machines and was nickel finish and shaped like a horse-shoe. What you have looks like a cross between an Expert soundbox and a Mark 9 EMG and therefore leads me to conclude that it is one of the copies (albeit quite good in itself!) of the EMG style. Nice find and easily mistaken in a photo for the real thing!

HTH

Steve

To be exact, this is a EMGinn soundbox. I had several before of the same kind.2 spring,solid brass .... they are even a bit rarer than the nikle EMG's. Since I do not need it ,I will probably sell it to a japanese collector on ebay.I will let you know when so you can follow the auction outcome...

Well, "Guest", good luck with your auction - I hope it is an original soundbox you've got.

As I said previously the one shown in the Ebay link above is definitely not an EMG soundbox OR an Expert soundbox as you state. It is an Astra soundbox made under licence from EMG and not Ginn's Expert company.

The design clearlt echoes the late Mk 10b soundbox but is a 2 flat spring design and the body is plain brass. EMG didn't make a soundbox like this.

The Expert soundboxes are markedly different too in that they retained the "hook" type springs throughout the history of Expert and their 2 spring boxes have a straight bar across the front for handling the soundbox (as opposed to the Mercedes logo style of grip used by late EMG 4 spring types).

Oh yes, by the way, I also have a number of EMG and Expert soundboxes on my machines including a couple with the last ever tweaks added by Philips and Creese in the late 1960's! Yes, they still believed in their products some 25 years after they had ceased production of them!

How come Francis James does not mention anything about similar lookin "Astra Soundboxes" or the "music exchange company" in his wonderfull EMG story book ? Nor can I find anything about this in any of the other gramophone related books....

Maybe it's time for you to share your expertise on this in your own book !

Well, before you start letting off, perhaps I should state where I stand. I'm a good friend of the author and it was he who told me about the Astra's sometime after the book was published! Okay? You'll notice too that in the section towards the back of the book where soundboxes are pictured, that no such 2-spring EMG or Expert soundbox is shown - that is why.

Guest wrote:Maybe it's time for you to share your expertise on this in your own book !

What I'd love to see is a comprehensive website exclusively devoted to the EMG/Ginn gramophones, that would incorporate data from James' book, as well as from other knowledgeable collectors, such as Steve, Howard Hope, etc. -- perhaps constructed as a joint project. (Hint, hint, hint, hint...) It would include lavish illustrations, specifications about each model, production dates, etc. For starters, perhaps a Wikipedia page?

Hey Joe (oops, sounds like a line from a famous song!...)

I did try something a few years ago with some other interested collectors but unfortunately it never got off the ground. I'm not computer savvy enough to create a website or maintain it and there are some EMG collectors who are obviously far more knowledgable than I am too. I'm happy to be part of it but I need someone else to help out! I think the time consuming element of it is what potentially put some of the other people off.

I don't know how many people are interested in EMG's really either. The American collectors certainly aren't as interested as they would be in their home grown stuff, in part because of the lack of availablity of the machines for them to access and buy. I mean they're not exactly common over here either and they were made here exclusively. Francis Jameses' book is very comprehensive and tells most of the story and shows the machines which had been found at the time of publishing. Of course, other machines have come to light since and as each one was nearly custom made there is always something new to see.

Steve

I received it today and now I remember it looked exactly the same as the one I had on an EMGinn Expert Cadet once.
I restored it and it sounds even better than the other 'real' ones I have. The bass it produces on the EMG oversize is just incredible.
I can go through all my Al Bowlly 78's again...
Why not start an EMG group at http://www.egroups.com ?
We can share pictures of our beloved EMG gramophones ,soundboxes and accessories!
Bert

just sold it
130220542560
not bad for an astra soundbox...

Well considering you said it was an EMG in the ad I saw, I hope you're right otherwise that makes you a very dishonest person. I think I read somewhere else (on here) that you faked a 193 too? Nice man, I hope i don't have to deal with you ever.

I must admit to not knowing if this soundbox was EMG or not but I DO KNOW that it looks nothing like any of mine EMG soundboxes and a reliable contact I have in the UK whose father worked at EMG said it definitely wasn't?

At least the buyer is contently ignorant of the situation either way.

Ian

When I sold the hmw203 to the korean seller I sent him tons of pictures, both in and out the cabinet (horn included) he loved it and bought it.The cabinet was professionally restored. So I actually saved one HMV re-entrant from turning into a storage cabinet... which is a good thing !
I still believe the soundbox i just sold was a true EMG soundbox...Proof is many emg collectors bid on the item.
It sounds as if many people either knew emg or worked there They must be either 100 years old or worked there at the time that 33 and 45rpm records were the standard.

do not forget that there are as many different emg soundboxes as there were emg gramophones so who is to tell after almost 80 years ???

If I were to run EMG and gave someone permission to copy my soundbox (a thing I would never ever permit to begin with) I would at least ask them to mark it with their brandname or even patent numbers that were my property...
It just does not make sense
anyhow I have 100% pos feedback so I believe I make collectors happy...

nippersbrother wrote:Well considering you said it was an EMG in the ad I saw, I hope you're right otherwise that makes you a very dishonest person. I think I read somewhere else (on here) that you faked a 193 too? Nice man, I hope i don't have to deal with you ever.

I must admit to not knowing if this soundbox was EMG or not but I DO KNOW that it looks nothing like any of mine EMG soundboxes and a reliable contact I have in the UK whose father worked at EMG said it definitely wasn't?

At least the buyer is contently ignorant of the situation either way.

Ian

I don't know for sure either way also, but I have seen any reason to doubt Steve's word on anything he's posted ever! That's something I'm sad to say, that I can't say about this Bert character.
Bert states above, that he restored this soundbox, which delivered better bass than any of his EMG soundboxes? If this was so, and he truly believes it is an EMG, then WHY would he sell it instead of using it?
No...I think Bert knows damn well it IS an Astra, and that's why it didn't stay in his collection. With no documentation to confirm it is an Astra, it's easy for him to plead ignorant.
Much like the "pictures" he sent to Korea. Knowing full well the 203 had a different horn, he failed to mention this to the buyer, and relied on the fact that many people would not know what it looked like behind the grill. An honest man would have certainly told the buyer the horn was not original.
With each post, Bert seems to be putting himself deeper into gaining a reputation of being a greedy dishonest man. He is the only person I have noticed on this board, or any other, that takes delight in telling us how cheaply he bought something, how great it is, and then has to tell us how much profit he made. Everyone else is content to show or ask about their new acquission with no mention of prices at all.
Money & profit seem to be the driving force with this fellow, which is a shame when most of us would prefer the honesty & integraty of a decent human being.
I would NEVER deal with this man, & I will be telling everyone I know in the phono collecting community, that if they have to deal with him, to be VERY VERY CAREFUL!

My post above should read- I have NEVER seen any reason to doubt Steve's word!