Continental 1 Randomly selecting Records

Hi All,

I hope someone may be able to point me in the right direction.

My Continental 1 has started to select random records.

If I select a number of records, all the selected records play, no problem, however, in between the selected records, random records are selected.

These random records are placed onto the turntable but do not play. The tone arm lifts onto the record, but when it touches the record, they are immediately returned to the record rack.
The transfer arm also appears to be slightly misaligned on these random selections and can, at times, miss picking up the random selected record all together. This does not happen with the selected records, they select and play as they should.

My initial thoughts were that the selector pins may have been dirty or sticking. Cleaning these did not help.

Can anyone please suggest where I need to look?

Kind Regards

Gordon...

Gordon,
Just wondering--when it selects a ghost, does the same side always attempt to play ??
Ron Rich

Hi Ron,

Thanks for reading my problem.

No, it plays 'ghost' records both odd and even numbers.

While I was testing for this, the jukebox selected a ghost record, returned it to the record rack and then re selected the same record and played it correctly.
I had selected this record. So it was a ghost first and then a selected record straight after it was returned to the record rack.

Regards

Gordon..

Hi Gordon,
Somehow--one or both, of the stopping switches are being activated at a time they should not activate--?
Is the wheel, that they are attached to "rubbing on something" ?? Ron Rich

Ron,

Nothing that I can see. I will add some oil and run through 100 records to see if that helps.

I'll let you know the results.

Cheers

Gordon

Gordon, when AMI's do this sort of thing it is usually due to the stopping switch actuator dragging or getting caught at various points, the off-center stopping is the clue. However, on these old design mechs it may be due to a failing-misadjusted microswitch. Check the large one that is separate from the others in the rocker-actuator.
This can happen on the later Rowe type too except there the sprag will make sure it is accurately indexed at each record.

Rob

Hi Rob and Ron,

Thanks for sticking with me on this.

I am sure you are both on the right track. What I have noticed is that before a 'ghost' record is selected, something catches in the selector mech (like on the record basket) and the record basket continues to turn about 2.5 records (hence sometimes misses picking up the record).

Rob, I don't know how I can check the micro-switch or which switch you are referring too. My manual does not explain a lot!

I cannot see that anything is rubbing or hitting any selector pins, however, some pins do not go all the way back in after selection, and stay a very little bit protruding, however, they do not interfere with the operation as it turns.

Regards
Gordon..

Gordon, take a look at the stopping switch assemblies and make sure all the springs are there. Each stopping switch has a spring that holds the switch in it's (inward) position.

Next, as the mech scans tap on the microswitch rocker plate and see if the magazine stutters and/or the transfer motor starts.

If you don't already have these functionals, they might be a help:

http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... ort=2&o=25 -Click along the thumbnails below the pic.

Rob

Gordon,
If the pins are not flush with the pin-wheel. they touch the stopping switch actuator, just enough to cause that problem--
Push them all flush with you finger and see it the problem ends--If so, you are going to need to figure out why they are not driven all the way back--Ron Rich

Ron, you may well be right about the pins though I had discounted that possibility due to this paragraph:

The transfer arm also appears to be slightly misaligned on these random selections and can, at times, miss picking up the random selected record all together. This does not happen with the selected records, they select and play as they should.

Those magazine motors have instant (dynamic) breaking and if the switch lever was hitting a pin it -should- always stop accurately. I know this will work with the original DC motors. The use of anAC motor for the gripper changes the action a bit. With the DC gripper motor, anytime a stop switch was actuated -even in standby, the gripper would start to try and load a record, As soon as you released the switch the gripper would reverse -even in mid-travel. IIRC, the AC motor has to go through a complete cycle and thus would try to fully load a record and promptly send it back.

There was IMO, too much resistance in the pin movement as designed. Add some dirt and you can see why those pinwheels often got greased...which ultimately made things worse.

Rob

Rob,
I do not recall the basket motor being changed to an AC type on a Conti ?? I think only the gripper motor changed, on those ??
Ron Rich

Ron Rich wrote:Rob,
I do not recall the basket motor being changed to an AC type on a Conti ?? I think only the gripper motor changed, on those ??
Ron Rich

That is correct...DC magazine 'till the end of that mech. Sorry if there was confustigation.

One odd permutation that I've seen pic's of was an "L" with that 900 series mech and manual (wheel) selector. I believe this was built in Europe. Aside from incorporating that old mechanism what struck me was that they had made a new keyboard casting to accommodate the manual selector wheel instead of just incorporating the later keyboard. They must have had a lot of 900 series parts in stock.

Edit; It looks like that odd model was called JLB: http://forum.vecchiflipper.it/flipper-f ... 0&tstart=0

Note the much simpler preamp w/no AGC and the PA with what looks like EL84 (6BQ5) or 6973 finals. The side mids are not enclosed as in the American version and the amp & pre are in the mech cabinet instead of below in separate enclosure. This last part i agree with. The American L's had the preamp in the same enclosure with the woofer which led to ringing if tubes became microphonic and the PA's enclosure really wasn't adequate for venting the 7868 tubes used in the domestic version.

Rob

Hi,

I think you guys have resolved my problem....THANKS!

I manually checked that every selector pin was pushed in. Some were a very slightly pushed out.
Then I played some records and no ghost records played.

The pins seem to have a sticky residue (I suspect a silicon spray may have been used in the past).
So I cleaned the pins with isopropyl alcohol as best I could and worked them in and out many times.

It appears to have fixed this problem for now.
Should I try to oil these pins or are they meant to be dry?

I will test run for a while and see what happens.

Thanks once again.

Gordon..

Hi Gordon,
Attza whut I was a-thunkin'--they MUST be flush--and CLEAN, and DRY !! Detailed instructions for cleaning/removing them are in the service manual. Ron Rich

Ron,

Thanks.
I have been looking through my manuals (both Continental and Model K manuals) but have not found how to remove and clean the pins. I'll keep looking.

Regards

Gordon..