Sonora help!

I am trying to fix my dad's old Sonora phonograph of which I know nothing! I have created a web page with pictures and the whole shebang. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! I don't even know what model it is.

http://sonorarhelp.yolasite.com/

Thanks in advance!

Based on what I see, the governor's worm gear is not centered properly. It should interact with the bottom and top teeth of the small gear(s), fitting in the "slot" between the two.

There's a photo on this page showing the proper alignment of the governor's worm gear:

http://www.angelfire.com/nc3/talkingmachines/motor.html

You might want to get in touch with George Vollema at Great Lakes Phonograph -- http://www.victroladoctor.com/ -- and see if he has any advice. From the looks of it, the motor could stand a thorough cleaning and re-greasing.

In case you need it, here's a Sonora Phonograph Owner's Manual -- http://www.nipperhead.com/old/sonora.htm (Click on the thumbnail images to make them full size.)

HTH,
JDS

Thanks, Joe. My problem is that I can't seem to center the worm gear. When I loosen the Governor End Bearing to center it, it actually pushes the worm gear out past the teeth so that they do not connect. I can only get the worm gear to connect to the bottom teeth (unentered). Do you know of any solutions to this?

Sorry, guess that would be the TOP teeth seeing as I work on it upside down.

On the site you suggested, http://www.angelfire.com/nc3/talkingmachines/motor.html - third pic down. All the way to the right - can that knob (not the screw, the knob) be loosened and readjusted? I couldn't seem to budge it.

Sonoradude wrote:On the site you suggested, http://www.angelfire.com/nc3/talkingmachines/motor.html - third pic down. All the way to the right - can that knob (not the screw, the knob) be loosened and readjusted? I couldn't seem to budge it.

That would be the "governor end bearing," same as #2 identified in the photo. You should be able to remove its locking screw and remove the bearing for cleaning. If it won't budge when the screw is removed, it's probably rusted in place. Try removing the screw and spraying or applying a few drops of light weight penetrating oil, or some WD-40 to the area and see if you can turn it. (You might want to do the same with the other end bearing.)

If this doesn't work, I'd suggest you get in touch with one of the repair shops.

JDS

Hi Joe. Thanks for the info. Yes, indeed I did get it to move with some wd40 and pressure. Now the worm gear is flush with the teeth. Problem is, now nothing else will move. If I manually move the Governor Disc or the Governor Weight the gears will move, but not by just cranking and winding the handle alone. When I manually move the turntable, it seems much harder than usual. Any advice or thoughts? Thanks again, Joe!

At this point, give the whole motor a spray with DW-40 and manually move the turntable until the spring is fully wound down. Then, remove both governor bushings, and the governor, itself. Make sure that there is no corrosion on the spindle ends or inside the bushings. Reinsert the bushings and governor and try giving it a few turns to check to see if it is binding anywhere. If it is, loosen the bushings' lock screws and readjust their positions slightly. The governor should be able to spin without any restriction. Along this line, neither bushing should press on the governor's shaft. There should be the tiniest amount of shake or sideways movement when the governor is properly situated in its bearings.

Also, if you haven't done this, make sure that all of the motor's gears are clean and thoroughly lubricated, especially the teeth of all the gears, bearings, etc. Normally, this requires a complete diss-assembly of the motor. (It helps to take some photographs before you take down the motor, for reference.) Be sure to check for worn teeth on the gears, etc.

I don't know if you have a copy, but for do-it-yourself-ers, "The Compleat Talking Machine," by Eric Reiss, is a must have, because it walks you through most of the maintenance on a step by step basis. It's available from most well-stocked booksellers for around $30.00.

HTH,
JDS

Joe: Thank you for the advice! I seem to have gotten it working to some extent. I actually videoed the process and uploaded it to Youtube. When you get a moment, would you mind looking at it and seeing if I am okay and what you would change? Speed control is still an issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a91pyLdbQ6U&feature=youtu.be

Another question: How far in should the needle go into the arm? Half way? All the way? Thanks again!

Sonoradude wrote:Joe: Thank you for the advice! I seem to have gotten it working to some extent. I actually videoed the process and uploaded it to Youtube. When you get a moment, would you mind looking at it and seeing if I am okay and what you would change? Speed control is still an issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a91pyLdbQ6U&feature=youtu.be

Another question: How far in should the needle go into the arm? Half way? All the way? Thanks again!

The governor seems to be spinning okay, albeit a little fast. You probably will have to readjust the speed control knob, so that it's pointer is more centered when it spins at 78 rpm. (That's the correct speed for most 78s, though some early ones, especially pre-1925, were recorded at slightly less or slightly more than that. ) I'm not sure how this adjustment is made, though, since I'm more familiar with Victor motors.

The sound box (reproducer) is rather weak sounding. Most likely, the gaskets holding the mica diaphragm should be replaced. There are a number of youtube videos showing Sonora phonographs that you can use as reference for sound quality. For instance -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaFBe-8nj5c

In fact, VictrolaMan, who posted that video, is a good person to get in touch with concerning your Sonora. He can probably provide some repair and adjustment tips I don't know about.

As for the needle, these are normally inserted until they stop. They're, of course, held in place by tightening the thumbscrew.

JDS

Joe, do you have an email or phone # for him? I scoured his youtube page but couldn't find anything. Thanks!

Sonoradude wrote:Joe, do you have an email or phone # for him? I scoured his youtube page but couldn't find anything. Thanks!

I don't have an email or phone for him, but if he has his account configured to accept personal messages via youtube, all you have to do is go to your youtube inbox, which is listed under your account name.

Click on that, and on the next plage, click on Personal Message, then click on the Compose button.

Fill in Victrolaman in the box next to "To:", type a subject in, compose your message and then click the "send message button."

The page for personal messages should look something like this:




HTH,
JDS

Thanks. Just sent him a message. Indeed, the diaphragm is loose. Is this an easy fix?

Sonoradude wrote:Thanks. Just sent him a message. Indeed, the diaphragm is loose. Is this an easy fix?

If you have steady hands and good close-up vision, it's not too hard. When rebuilding any sound box, it helps to have a spare replacement diaphragm of the correct size handy, since the fragile, original mica diaphragm is often damaged during the repair process and will have to be replaced. The diaphragm and gaskets can be ordered from any well stocked phonograph repair shop. In addition to the name I provided above, you can find many more by doing a search for Victrola Repair or Antique Phonograph Repair.

There were a couple of different types of sound boxes used by Sonora over the years. If it's like the one on this page -- http://www.phonographs.org/store/produc ... ts_id=1593 -- then it has a one-piece shell. In that case you'd:

1 -- remove the sound box from the tonearm
2 -- insert a tiny screw driver into the throat (back opening) of the sound box and turn the screw connected to the center of the back of the diaphragm counter-clockwise to remove it.
3 -- gently pull the needle bar forward to make sure it is not stuck to the center of the diaphragm. If it is, apply a little denatured alcohol to the center to melt away the wax or shellac holding it in place.
4 -- with a small screwdriver, gently nudge the front hardened gasket, working gradually, until you can nudge it out. The diaphragm should just clear the opening. Then, remove the back gasket, if it wasn't hopelessly stuck to the diaphragm.
5 -- clean all of the areas with WD-40.

To reassemble the sound box, simply reverse the steps above --
1 -- insert the back gasket
2 -- place the diaphragm over the back gasket
3 -- carefully nudge the front gasket in place, between the diaphragm and rim of the shell.
4 -- reinstall the tiny screw to hold the diaphragm to the needle bar
5 -- put a tiny drop of shellac or melted wax onto the front of the needle bar to seal the area.

For optimum performance the sound box should be completely air tight.

You can adjust the tone, eliminate buzzing or rattling, etc., by adjusting the screws holding the need bar's pivot in place.

If this all seems a bit much, most qualified repair shops will do a sound box rebuild for about $30-50, including parts.

HTH,
JDS

Joe - Thanks so much for taking the time to explain all this to me. I will give this a whirl this weekend.