Total Noob, looking for advice

No worries, the seller just confirmed what I already knew. I thought I would give them a chance to get some of my money. Another lesson learned.
On another note, anyone interested in a top notch EM pinball in trade? I have a pretty good reputation for ground up restores on EM machines (amoung others) I have sold machines world wide, Australia England and of course the US.

On to the next one. Struck a deal on one of the ones I found on cl. It was billed as a vl200. As I get more educated on these machines I am thinking the machine has been put together with v and vl parts somewhere along the way. It has the white record player cover with the green plastic face vs the salmon color on most vls I see. Some of the trim is gold. The bullet towel bar holders are gold but the rest is chrome silver. The selection buttons are amber vs the green I see on most vls. The magazine body is light green as I see in most vls. The badge lenses on the sides are white but the lenses on the front are red "200 selections" is red. Side trim on the barrel is gold.

So am I getting a hybrid? We're the parts ever mixed between the v and vls as an option new or was this machine pieced together between the two versions? It looks very nice and when I restore I will likely customize it anyway. just curious.

Thanks.

John

Yep, I think it's a vl that was fixed up with some v trim. Not a deal killer for me. I may go custom color anyway. Guessing purists would frown on a custom machine but it's for me.

John_in_NC wrote:On to the next one. Struck a deal on one of the ones I found on cl. It was billed as a vl200. As I get more educated on these machines I am thinking the machine has been put together with v and vl parts somewhere along the way. It has the white record player cover with the green plastic face vs the salmon color on most vls I see. Some of the trim is gold. The bullet towel bar holders are gold but the rest is chrome silver. The selection buttons are amber vs the green I see on most vls. The magazine body is light green as I see in most vls. The badge lenses on the sides are white but the lenses on the front are red "200 selections" is red. Side trim on the barrel is gold.
Thanks.
John

John, the amber buttons are from a K. The towel bar holders on both V & VL are chrome. The embossed inner sides that frame the speaker grill are gold on V and silver on VL

The mech base is off-white on V, gray on VL. Visible mech parts (stripper and tonearm) are coral on V and gray on VL.

Side medallions on V are gold. Chrome on VL. The light roundels are green on V and white on VL.

Magazine end dress caps is maroon on V and yellow-lime on VL.

One thing sloppy restorers do is fail to remove the side screens at the midriff of the machine when repainting it. This plugs the holes and eliminates the black backing that obscures the vents on either side.

The mech covers often develop cracks in the front graphic due to heat and UV from the florescent lamp.

Inside, the 8in "tweeters" are in a curved wood enclosure on V and a molded fiberglass assembly on the later VL. This was also used on K and 201.

the V originally came with a TSR-1 control unit which uses 2d21 tubes. VL came with a much improved version called TSR-3 which got rid of all but two thyratrons and used the more rigged 2050. Converting a V to use this receiver is simple. Converting the credit unit is a -little- more complex as it requires a new plug and additional wire.

Amps are the same for both.

They are both 'hernia specials" at over 420 lbs. The crappy casters that Seeburg insisted on using are almost always broken on these models.

The lower framed opening on the rear where the backdoor pin hinges fit always sags and widens. This causes the backdoor to fall out is you are not careful.

My first encounter with a V was at an awful private school on the upper west side in late 1969. The school was in a converted townhouse and the 'facilities" were s---. But the "auditorium" had a V and we turned it up full-on. It could be heard, and felt all over the building.

Rob/NYC

So I have a base VL with K buttons & Towel holders and a V mech cover and barrel side trim. All these parts seem to be readily available and easily swapped should I want to make the machine 100% "correct". How much does a Frankenstein job hurt the value?

Hi All,
Parts often get swapped between models--I know of a V, or VL, that is running, in commercial service, still, with a TSU 5 in it--A LOT of "converting" is required to do it, but it is possible.
Since I pay little, or no attention to "colors"--I usually don't know what cosmetics are correct, or wrong, on V's--
Values ? --I would guess, like "beauty/value --is in the eye of the beholder"--
BTW--Has anyone ever seen a printed sales flyer for a VL ? Or, better yet, does anyone have a flyer for one of those (in color, of course!) ?
Ron Rich

So now I have a supposedly 100% working VL200 coming to me and now I need to find some records to put in it. I understand this is a mono box but what do I need to check it's good to go to play stereo records? How does that work on these mono boxes anyway? I assume t stereo compliant readhead is needed from my searches. How do I tell if it is so equipped and what does the readhead do? Does it read and combine both channels into one playback? Told you I was a noob

Also I will want to run line level output to my whole house audio as a channel to listen throughout the house. How would I tap in and where, run through coax? to my Russound CAV system?

Stereo Compliant cartridges are just that - more compliant.
Depending on the particular design, the vertical as well as horizontal "flexability" of the stylus is the beneficial factor here.
Older, monophonic cartridges were only "flexible" in the horizontal plane, with little "give" vertically, which causes more wear on the grooves of stereo records.
Plus, they tracked at higher levels, meaning more wear.

Any mono system can benefit from the "upgrade" to a stereo cartridge.
The lighter tracking force, as well as increased compliance is a no-brainer.

Of course, combining the seperate channels of a stereo cartridge is needed to "feed" or "blend" the total sound of stereo records into a single channel for mono amps.
Naturally, a mono record will play normally regardless, but you don't want to hear "half" the music on stereo records.

But considerations have to be thought of - mainly signal output levels, impedance, and tracking force requirements - when choosing a different cartridge for a given system.
Not all cartridges can be fitted to all systems.

John_in_NC wrote:So now I have a supposedly 100% working VL200 coming to me and now I need to find some records to put in it. I understand this is a mono box but what do I need to check it's good to go to play stereo records? How does that work on these mono boxes anyway? I assume t stereo compliant readhead is needed from my searches. How do I tell if it is so equipped and what does the readhead do? Does it read and combine both channels into one playback? Told you I was a noob
Also I will want to run line level output to my whole house audio as a channel to listen throughout the house. How would I tap in and where, run through coax? to my Russound CAV system?

John, there are a few things that must be checked on a 'restored" machine.

Unbolt mechanism.

Power-up while watching the selection receiver. If using original type of 0A2 tubes, make sure they glow purple-violet inside the can structure.

Check the main voltages.

Beyond that, it is a good idea to check the tracking weight and balance of the tonearm.

If it has the original redhead you can use stereo compatible styli that look like this:

http://www.stylusplus.co.uk/seeburg-red ... 9267-p.asp There are newly made, higher quality reproduction styli made in Europe for about $80 US.

It is desirable to use around 3 grams VTF when using the stereo compatible styli.

Victory Glass has them: http://www.victoryglass.com/items.asp?CAT=58 Item# 77-2548

Tapping the output is simple. Looking at the schematic: http://www.verntisdale.com/schem/hfma1-l6.jpg

The output is taken from the high side of the volume control at Pin-1 of the remote volume control socket. It is a low-impedance cathode follower so it is suitable for a long cable run.

When setup this way the machine volume control has no effect on the level sen to the remote amp.

In my commercial installation I have both this type of connection and in one case, I connected the P/A. rack to the arm of the volume control so that all levels change in-sync.

Rob/NYC

Thanks again. Anxiously waiting on my machine. Hoping for the best but expecting a surprise in the opposite direction or two.

My machine is being picked up for a 1000 mile journey back to me. It will be transported strapped to the wall of a trailer. Is it necessary to remove the records? The seller said he would secure the mech and needle. Any other necessary prep needed?

Hi John,
IMHO, it would be best to remove them--if kept totally upright, they MAY stay in place. You can also have the seller put masking tape, across them so they can't fall out---
If he is attaching the proper shims, and the two "thumb screws", and shimming the base, as per specs. you should be just fine--If he is unwilling, or does not know how to do this- -be 100 % sure that the four 9/16 head nuts, are run ALL the way UP, till they jam ! (and be sure you leave them that way to play it !)
Also--ask him to tape down the catch, for the "200 selection lamp bar", as these tend to come loose in transportation. Ron Rich

I bought a service manual but I have no idea what the thumbscrews or 9/16 headnuts are, Hoping it makes it here in one piece. I believe I will be refinishing the machine with custom colors and added chrome. The VL, is by most opinions a superior machine to the VL mechanically but it's value is held down by the subjective attractiveness with the salmon and light green color scheme. I think I'll re-theme it with a brighter scheme. It may be sacrilege but it will pop when I'm done with it.

John,
I think you have "made a typo"--The "VL", and the "VL" are identical machines . The"V" was the early one. which if updated to a "VX", is also "identical" in electronics, and mechanics, to the "VL". I honestly don't care for either cabinet-- but, like someone much more smarter then little ol'me said--"beauty is in------" Ron Rich

Ron Rich wrote:John,
I think you have "made a typo"--The "VL", and the "VL" are identical machines . The"V" was the early one. which if updated to a "VX", is also "identical" in electronics, and mechanics, to the "VL". I honestly don't care for either cabinet-- but, like someone much more smarter then little ol'me said--"beauty is in------" Ron Rich

Good catch, VL > V

I love the beauty of the machine, shape and form but the V cosmetically is certainly more palatable than the VL by today's tastes as far as color choices. Since I have a Frankenstein VL coming with V, VL and M parts I figure I might as well make it a VJ .