Phonoland

I am new to the antique phonograph hobby, and have bought two Victrolas reasonably over the past few months.

One is a 1919 era VV XIV in pretty rough shape (came with three spare complete reproducers so that made up for the condition....somewhat.) .

Anyway, this player has a gold colored tone arm, reproducer and other hardware accessories. Even the screws for the motor board are gold and the serial . model badge is gold or copper colored.

Does this denote anything special about my player or was it simply a "option" in 1919?

Thanks in advance!

Ed

I'm not aware that the plating used for the hardware was a customer option.

The first cabinet style VV-XIV did come with gold plated (not gold colored) hardware --



"The earliest XIV models had a squarish, rather plain look, with minimal decorative trim and unusual curved Queen Anne legs (left). These models used gold plated hardware. The design was modernized in late 1912 (right), initially appearing more like an oversized version of its cheaper cousin, the VV-XI. At the same time, the gold plating on the hardware was replaced with a nickel plate. " -- SEE: http://www.victor-victrola.com/XIV.htm

If this has a later serial number than 9750, and uses the second style cabinet (or later) --



-- then it should be equipped with nickel plated hardware. It's possible that someone substituted parts culled from a junker machine. It's also possible that a VV-XIV plate was put on a VV-XVI cabinet. (All XVI models came with gold plated hardware.)

Could you post a few photos of your Victrola? That might give a clue. Also, the cabinet's measurements would confirm that this is, indeed, a VV-XIV.

Joe -

Thanks for the reply. I have been going on the model and serial # the seller gave me. I looked closely at the model badge, again, and it is actually a XVI serial #190989.

I guess that makes it a slightly more desirable machine than the XIV?

I will post some pics tonight.

Thanks again!

Ed

repeal19th wrote:Joe -

Thanks for the reply. I have been going on the model and serial # the seller gave me. I looked closely at the model badge, again, and it is actually a XVI serial #190989.

I guess that makes it a slightly more desirable machine than the XIV?

I will post some pics tonight.

Thanks again!

Ed

I kind of figured it might be a model XVI. Desirability, among collectors, is more contingent on condition, finish/type of veneer, and originality. The XVI is a very common Victrola, but is, nonetheless, more towards the top of the line. According to the grid on victor-victrola.com, it would date from 1920. (SEE: http://www.victor-victrola.com/XVI.htm )

I look forward to seeing the pictures.

JDS

JDS

Here are some pics of my XVI. I am sure most collectors would not touch this machine with a ten foot pole due to the condition of the cabinet, but I am looking forward to seeing what I can do to revive it. The Veneer on one of the lower doors is basically toast.

Is the hardware actually gold plated or gold colored? Is there anyway to revive the plating where the hardware has tarnished?

I have yet to pull the motor out to see what that looks like.

Thanks for your comments and insight. This is a very informative board.

Is the hardware actually gold plated or gold colored? Is there anyway to revive the plating where the hardware has tarnished?

Yes, that is, indeed, real gold plate. I believe it's 22 Kt., but don't quote me on that. Keep in mind these were SUPER expensive machines in their day. The original selling price of the VV-XVI was around $250 in 1920, or $2,000 to $3,000+ in today's money. Only in the later 1920s, after the introduction of the Orthophonic models (late 1925), did Victor use other plating on its standard production high end Victrolas--notably, antique bronze.

Whatever you do, don't attempt to polish the remaining gold finish. It comes off easily. I'd leave the tarnish as-is, for now. If the cabinet restoration is successful, you might want to make the investment in having the parts re-plated.

The finish on your Victrola's cabinet, btw, looks to be red mahogany. It may actually be easier, and much cheaper, to locate replacement doors from a similar junker cabinet (same model and production time-frame) than to locate the fine quarter-sawed mahogany veneers that would match the rest of the cabinet.

If I were in your position, I'd start by trying to learn as much as possible about the types of finish, stains, etc., used in the cabinet's construction. A good reference site, of course, is the Victor Victrola page, which provides detailed information about all of the Victor models -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/

Another great resource is a book, "The Compleat Talking Machine" by Eric Reiss. (That's the way "complete" is spelled in the title.) It walks you through most repairs, including cabinet work, motor overhaul, and sound box restoration. It's available from a number of well stocked booksellers, including -- http://www.amazon.com/Compleat-Talking- ... 1886606226 and is well worth the $20 investment.

This looks like it will be a challenging, but rewarding restoration project.

JDS

JDS-

I have spent a great deal of time on the victor-victrola page over the past six weeks. It is so comprehensive! I should drop its creator a line to let them know how much help the site has been.

I also do have a copy of the Compleat Talking Machine, purchase about a month ago. Between that book and other web based pages I have learned a great deal.

Here are pics of my (actually my wife's) first Victrola, a VV 4-3 Consolette. I bought it out of a garage-ish barn in CT for 50 bucks on Dec 12th as a Christmas present for my lovely wife. It was filthy, had paint spatters, and some minor veneer lifting. After copius amounts of lemon oil, steel wool and a little Liquid Gold wood polish the cabinet looks presentable. I did not take before pics, I should have.

The motor works but does need a thoughrough cleaning and re greasing of the springs. I did not think I could get that process done for Christmas, so I held that off for later. It plays well, and I have a good idea of its workings after tinkering with it.

Thanks again for your help!

Ed

It could always be worse....

http://cgi.ebay.com/victrola-2-phonogra ... 3358dd7872

Hi Ed:

Glad to hear you're ahead of the game. Yes, the Victor-Victrola page is probably the web's most comprehensive site devoted to a single manufacturer of phonographs (or talking machines, to be more exact.)

I love the Consolette (4-3). I had one, several years back, and it's the only Victrola I regret selling. As you know, it was the smallest upright model in the Orthophonic line, but with the exception of true bass, is a remarkable performer, especially when good condition electric-era recordings (from the mid to late 1920s) are played. For some records, you'd swear you're listening to an electrically amplified phonograph!

Being super nit-picky about sound quality, I went over the one I had, top to bottom, sealing all possible leaks in the tone chamber, especially at the base of the tonearm, and the tonearm crook, using heavy grease. I remember that this was discussed on this site awhile back and I provided the follow illustration showing where the grease should be applied:




I also had the sound box rebuilt and then, eventually, replaced with a better one. This really brought out the mid-range and treble.

--------------------------------------------

I agree, that "# 2 Victrola" ( http://cgi.ebay.com/victrola-2-phonogra ... 3358dd7872 ) looks about as bad as you can get. Probably, some of it can be salvaged for parts, but I wouldn't go near it.

JDS

Our 4-3 really does sound nice, even as is without having the motor gone through. When I dismantle it again I will folow your suggestions for making the tone arm truly air tight.

Ed

My "XIV", actually an XVI has been untouched since I deposited it into the basement two weeks ago. I decided to pull the motor to see what that looked like and here are some pics.....

It's pretty messy, but I've seen much worse. The motor looks to be in good condition, and should clean up very nicely.

Victor's four spring motor was great. It will run about 20+ minutes on a full wind. Once the springs are cleaned and re-packed, and all other parts cleaned & re-lubricated, it should run trouble-free for years. About the only thing you'll have to do is put a drop of oil on the governor friction pad every few months. (It's a good idea to wind it up and let it run down, at least once a week, when not in regular use. This keeps the grease distributed, and prevents it from settling in the barrels.)

The only thing to caution about is that the spring coils are razor sharp, and you have to be very careful when removing and reinstalling them. I've never tried this, myself; I've always sent the barrels to shops to be overhauled. But, I've known several do-it-yourselfers over the years who say it's no big deal.

I have been testing some finish cleaning and/or revitalizing products on my Edisons that have mostly intact but crazed or alligatored original finishes. I do not want to strip them and lemon oil has giving satisfactory results so far. The crazing is fine enough not to be an eyesore so I am not going to get into a reamalgamation project. I did get a can of mahogany Howard's Restor a Finish that did not do anything worthwhile to the C150 so I tested it on my XVI lid. I like the results and the pic shows the area after being coated with Howards beeswax and orange oil goop. The dark areas on the very top of the lid are errant drops of restor- a- finish.

Obviously, it is not perfect, but I think I will use this stuff on the lid rather than stip and refinish. I would much rather keep it as original as possible.

I also think I might rob the veneer off the back of the machine to redo the lower doors and replace the back with modern veneer. It might work if I can't come up with doors off a junker machine.

ED