Garrard AT6 Mk II Operation

Hello. I'm new to the forum but not to phonographs. Unfortunately I
grew up with well behaved phonographs. Within the past five years
everything has stopped working short of the table turning and needle
playing music and returning to the stand. I apologize if I'm not using
the correct terms.

I will ask about the AT6 at the moment. The first thing I noticed was that
the arm when set on 45 RPM dropped well outside the turntable. I tried
using the pickup dropping position adjustment but that didn't get the
pickup anywhere near the 45.

I tried opening things up and everything looks ok (clean, oiled, etc) and
I oiled a few areas that had grease to see if that would do anything with
no success.

I determined (for the second time in my life) that even though I am very
mechanically inclined, I am awful at diagnosing or repairing phonographs.

Eventually I could get the arm to go near the 45 (within an adjustment
range) if I moved the feeder arm out of the way.

I'm out of clues as to how stuff should be working or how to get things in
proper working order. Any help or ideas or things to check would be
great! Thanks!

Do yourself a favor and stop playing around with something too complex for your experience.
Best to take it to an experienced repair shop.

As a Service Technician, I've seen way too many "backyard mechanics" ruin an otherwise good piece of electronic equipment by "trying" to fix a problem.
Then, when I hit the customer with a big bill to repair the damage they created, I have to explain that they should have stayed out of the unit.
The Garrard's are known for dried-up grease and binding from this problem due to aging. It needs flushing out and re-lubing, done in a professional way.
We guys know whereto look and what to do.

I've checked all the lubrication and grease points that folks have mentioned on the forum as well as looked at all the points I could see. None of this grease appears to be gummed up or binding any mechanisms.

Are the mechanisms so precise that any minor binding can be the difference between correct and incorrect operation?

Matt-
While I understand and appreciate your professional advice, honestly; how is somebody going to learn how to do this if they don't try? True, somebody learning is possibly going to hash things up, but record changer service is a dying art, so if we don't encourage others to try it, who will be left to do it when our generation goes to its reward? Best wishes to you and all the board members for a prosperous and happy new year.

Regards,
Martin

martinola wrote:Matt-
While I understand and appreciate your professional advice, honestly; how is somebody going to learn how to do this if they don't try? True, somebody learning is possibly going to hash things up, but record changer service is a dying art, so if we don't encourage others to try it, who will be left to do it when our generation goes to its reward? Best wishes to you and all the board members for a prosperous and happy new year.

Regards,
Martin

Martin, there are Service Manuals available for virtually every changer out there.
The Proper way to go about it is to Get the Service Manual, and understanding the workings Fully, plus the critical calibrations and adjustments involved, only THEN should repairs/adjustments be performed.

Anything ELSE is just guess & hope, and more times than not, it's risky, if not foolish.

For another record player I spent $10 on a service manual. While it did identify all the adjustment points and areas of interest, they did not highlight any areas that led to results.

Generally, internet forums are meant to discuss and advance the learning and understanding of the subject involved; has been for all of the other ones I've used. Not the advertisement of someone's professional abilities to those who wish to learn about the topic of conversation.

While I agree with you on the use of internet forums, it sometimes--NO, MOST-times-- becomes a "hassel" if the "learner" can not communicate in terms the "pro" can understand.
For this reason, I usually demand that anyone wishing my "free" help, have a Service Manual, and READING it , as a reference point. I make no money selling "Service Manuals"--, or giving away my time---Which I don't mind giving away in my area of 'expertise" ( Not Turntables!).Ron Rich

Ron Rich wrote:While I agree with you on the use of internet forums, it sometimes--NO, MOST-times-- becomes a "hassel" if the "learner" can not communicate in terms the "pro" can understand.
For this reason, I usually demand that anyone wishing my "free" help, have a Service Manual, and READING it , as a reference point. I make no money selling "Service Manuals"--, or giving away my time---Which I don't mind giving away in my area of 'expertise" ( Not Turntables!).Ron Rich

Indeed Ron, the Internet cannot ever replace, or even come close to "being there" types of training.
It's got its limits.... period.
And you agree that the complexity of electronics and the mechanicals of record changers, tape decks, etc, cannot be properly explained though internet "text" messages.
It's simply too difficult to convey the needed info.
The main thing really needed is not here... for instance, showing how much to turn an adjustment screw, or using a meter to probe and test a bias voltage and calibrate it for proper operation and a successful repair.

That is why I don't get into the mechanics with online people, and suggest that it's better to have a qualified person attempt repairs.
A lot of these beautiful pieces should be cared for and "done right" to survive, it's a shame to let them die.

Indeed, the internet has spawned a world of DIY'ers, but IMO that's not such a good thing either.
Like I stated in a previous post, I've seen lovely old equipment damaged beyond repair because of homebrew errors.

This is the third time this year I found someone who doesn't understand automatic size sensing.

Are you trying to play a single record on the turntable with the overarm up?

It will always set to 12" with the overarm up and over the rest post.

This turntable was not built for automatic play of a single record already on the turntable.
It was built for MANUAL play of a record already on the turntable, or automatic play of a stack with mixed record sizes.
And the speed control does not set the record size on most changers made before 1967. Only the cheapo-cheapo "dumb" changers from the 1970s did that. This "smart" one uses a size sensor.

It senses the record size AS THE RECORD DROPS DOWN THE SPINDLE. The falling record hits the record size sensor on the way down.

That thing that looks like a seal flipper is the record size sensor.

A 7" record does not touch the feeler as it falls to the turntable.
A 10" record moves it back slightly.
A 12" record pushes it all the way back.
All three sizes can be mixed in the stack in any order, provided they are the same speed.

A record already on the turntable does not touch the record size sensor, so it will index to the wrong size.

Raising the overarm and swinging it over the rest post moves the feeler out of the way, so the records can be removed. This position is the same as if a 12" record struck the feeler.

Put the record up on the spindle, put the overarm on it, and let the changer drop it. Then it will work correctly. Of course, you will have to adjust the setdown index back where it belongs. If it still does not work correctly, the spring may have come off the feeler.

Most record changers that can take intermixed record sizes can not play a single record automatically.

More on this:

We have to realize that records of each speed were made in multiple sizes. There is no one size that goes with a given record speed.

Most record changers made before the late 1960s have size intermix, This was done because many record albums contained records of more than one size. I have two albums that have several 12" records and one 10" record, and another album with two 12" records and a 7" record. This also allowed a greater choice of records to put in the stack.

Some record changers even have speed intermix. I own two of these. You can mix 12" and 10" 33 records with 7" 45s. The one in my avatar can do this, but the 45s must be last.

There were several methods used to sense record size:
- Feel the first record on the turntable - no intermix, but has automatic single play
- Feel the record as it falls from the stack - random size intermix, no auto single play
- Both of the previous methods - random mix of 12" and 10" records, but 7" records used separately, no auto single play of 12" records
- Feel the unplayed stack - arranged intermix (larger records must be before smaller records), no auto single play
- Lower the record from the stack slightly, then feel it - random intermix, no auto single play

These were not the only methods, but they are in the majority.

Automatic single play was not usually provided before the late 1960s. Most designs that took intermixed record sizes could not do automatic single play. Then, with the advent of component systems, more people wanted automatic play of a single record.

Many companies started making changers with size controls instead of automatic indexing, so the changers could also play single records with the short spindle. Examples include most of the Miracord changers made after 1961, the BSR changers made after 1967, and the Dual changers after 1964. These changers sacrificed the ability to mix record sizes in favor of automatic single play.

In the late 1960s and early 1970s, changer manufacturers started linking the record size to the speed control. This, of course, meant that many older records could not be played automatically. These changers also didn't know what to do with 45 rpm classical albums and disco singles. Note that some of the earliest 3-speed changers also linked speed to record size on the speed knob.

Garrard was the first to do this after the intermix period, in 1967. The SL-95 and SL-75 took the following size-speed combinations: 12" 33, 10"33, 7" 33, 7" 45, 12" 78. These can not be intermixed. Note that 10" 78 was left out, even though there are more 10" 78 records than 12" 78 records. They also made the changer so it would not change anything except a 12" small hole record or a 7" large hole record. STUPID!

In 1969, Garrard changed the AT series so it also used the speed control for size. The choices were: 12" 33, 7" 33, 7" 45, and 10" 78.

In the mid 1970s, most changer manufactures cheaped out, and made changers that took only 12" 33 and 7" 45. The public stopped buying them, because they had records of other speed-size combinations. Only Collaro kept making changers with automatic arranged-intermix index to the end.

There are a few changers that can take intermixed sizes and also index a single record:

- Dual 1003, 1004, 1005, and 1006, and the Luxor RT series, used feeler wheels to sense the size of only the top record on the turntable. They could play standard and odd sized records mixed in any order.

- Dual 1008 and 1011 used a drop feeler to sense the dropping records during changer play. But a second feeler sensed the size of a single record only when the single play spindle was installed.

- Miracord 16, 160, 161, and 191 had an automatic arranged index that worked like the Collaro (large records must be first), but also had a single play record size switch.

- Many of the Philips AG series had a special control for the size of a single record.

- Glaser-Steers 3000 and 4000 would index a single record if you put the tip of the raised overarm over the rim of the record. But it repeated the record forever until you put the overarm down over the spindle or selected STOP.

Also, some record changers sense the size automatically, but do not allow size intermix:

- The PE 2000 series does this, feeling the first record in the turntable again and again.

- Philips made a changer that used the arm tip to feel record size (like Collaro), but it feels the records on the turntable, rather than the records on the spindle.