AY 100 issues

Let me preface this by saying I have the service manual and Ron's mech manual.

I bought a Seeburg AY 100 in very nice condition that has been sitting for quite some time. I've recapped the amp and started working on the mech. Two issues:
1. The white wire from the bottom of the trip selenoid has come off of where ever it went. It looks like it goes to the inside connection of the selenium rectifier but according to the schematics I've seen of similar mechs (don't have one for this one, 145ST7), it goes to the first set of switches on the second switch.
2. It has clutch issues. When I got it, it would pick up a record and play it, at normal speed, return it and play it again, over and over. I lubed the mech, didn't seem to be too cruddy but seems to be quite dry. Now it seems to have bound up. It is very hard to turn by hand and the motor can barely spin it. I have it all the way to the right. Everything seems to be moving OK, but something is bound up. I removed the motor and the motor spun quite easily. Is it time to try "flooding the shaft". Or, should I start thinking about removing the clutch. The mech is out and on the bench.
I have the manuals but I'm still a newb on jukes. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Greg

Hi Greg.
The white wire does go to the rectifier--should be a white/orange wire there at the same terminal--I suggest strongly, putting a one amp FB fuse in series with the white/or. wire. The mech bind may be a result of incorrect oil/grease--some oils and some grease do not mix, or become "glue". I suggest that you should wash the mech as per the book (thanks again for your purchase !), dry it, and re-lube it as per the book. Ron Rich

Thanks Ron. I read that section about 5 times and wondered if that's the direction I need to go. Thanks for the confirmation. It's going to be nice today for the first time in a while. I'll report the progress or lack thereof.

I did wash the mechanism today per Ron's instructions in the book. The bind is gone but still sits and spins. Flipping the lever will allow it to pick up the record, play it, return it, play it, etc. If I stop the mechanism when the record lifter is at the bottom, push down on the clutch, it will go into scan and stay there but it just scans and scans and scans. It actually used to shut off. Sounds like maybe the clutch has to come out.

Also either I screwed up the amp rebuild or something is still messed up. I have a serious buzz, (not a 60 cycle, maybe 120). It is dependent on volume setting. Pulling either preamp tube makes it stop. Pulling the input plug makes no difference. Changing the bass makes it get lower but changing the treble changes the sound of it entirely. I have 85% of the caps replaced. This amp also has two transistors and some diodes. I replaced the only single one but there are three more double ones I haven't checked yet. They look like goofy looking transistors but the schematic shows them as double diodes. There are some resistors that came with the kit for the 7199's that don't match the ones in the amp so I haven't changed them. This amp had problems before the recap but volume was too soft to determine what it was. It goes plenty loud now. Scared the heck out of me when I first fired it up. Any ideas would be welcome.

Greg,
One at a time--
Clutch ASSEMB. is binding--reasons for this can be--dirt-lack of proper oil- dog link bent- clutch shifting lever assemb. bent/binding--yoke pin loose (usually the long one) or some one has "mucked up" ALL clutch adjustments. Removing the clutch may expose the problem to you--
Scans-- Somewhere very early in my Mechanism Guide, I have described the operation of the Scan Control unit---I suspect that you have bent the scan control subtract switch.
On the amp-- I would guess that you did indeed "screw up" and place a lead in the wrong place. Sorry 'bout that--I've been there too !
The "goofy" diodes are selenium diode packages--these are NOT directly replicable with the newer diodes. I use two "signal diodes", wired in series, for each ONE of the old type--works fairly well, but you need to "mess around" with the AVC resistor value, depending on the amp model.
Have fun -enjoy your "reading"--Ron Rich

Ok, I deserved that. I have read it numerous times but am always looking for the short cut. The first one I did was too easy, not enough wrong with it. Now I guess I'm starting to learn something, maybe. I'll keep going step by step on the mechanism although I think it wise to save any adjusting as the final step. I was very careful with the mech but I supposed something could have changed or I bent something. UPDATE, before I removed the mech, I decided to try it one more time. It is going from play to scan and scan to play by moving the manual lever so it looks like the clutch is coming unstuck. I pulled the 12ax7 on the control center and replaced it again and now it's shutting off. It still will not register any selection but it seems progress is being made. I'll keep reading and checking.

The amp has me puzzled though. There are only a few caps where polarity was necessary and I triple checked them when I replaced them. Why do the replacement resistors for the 7199's have different values than the originals.

I know.......One thing at a time.

Yea--the book was written to be read from the start to the finish in order to help you understand the sequence of operation for the model phono you have--cutting corners won't work ---
Which (value)resistors are supplied, and which model amp do you have ?
Ron Rich

The amp is a SHFA4 Code A. It will probably be until Wednesday when I dig into it again. I'll report then. Thanks for everything.

Just before I took the amp out tonight, I pushed K8 as that was the only slot with a record in it. The mechanism went to K8 and played it. I rejected it with the switch and it went to the idle position. Yes.

Found the amp problem, I think. I said I had replaced 85% of the caps which is true but one of the caps I didn't replace was a 200 mfd one that turned out to be shorted. I think it's a filter cap for the transistors which makes sense why it would howl like it did. It's quiet now and playing out of both channels. Think it needs outputs or 7199's though. It sounds OK but I don't think it's as good as it could be.

What happened with the replacement resistors ? Ron Rich

I haven't replaced them yet or looked up the value. I can't remember the color code as I've just started this again after a 10 year hiatus with fixing electronics. I have it someplace and plan on checking it out tonight. The amp howl must have been due to the shorted filter cap as it was affecting both channels. However it sounds kinda muddy and there is an issue with the balance. It also seems to be favoring the left channel. Maybe the change of resistors is to improve sound?? I know it's only 12" speakers with no tweeters but something is still not right. I have not checked out the output tubes yet and will check that out before I go any further also swap speaker wires to make sure it's the amp. Tonearm pressure seems to be OK and the needles look good.

On a good note, the mechanism seems to be working fine. I have not tried selecting every one but every one I have selected worked fine and it does shut off when it's supposed to. It was intermitant until I replaced the 12ax7 on the tormat, then it worked fine.

The resistor issue was the schematic called for 820k which came in the kit. The amp had 8.2m installed originally. I changed them out. I've replaced every part, it's still weak on channel 2. Swapped outputs, changed 7199's, etc. I reversed the wires and the right side became the louder channel but the left side seemed louder than when the same wires were on the right side. Know what I mean . Not really sure what's up with that. It also still sounds a little raggy on both channels but it's better than before. I'm going to go through the schematic on channel two section by section to see what's what. It's hard to tell if it's the cartridge or not. Different sides of records play about the same but the plug is a three pin deal instead of RCA jacks so it would be difficult to reverse channels.

The mechanism and selection system are still working great though.

Those amps have a "balance control" on them--use it while playing a "mono" record" and that should do it. Ron Rich

I've already done that Ron but it's at about 3:00 before the channels are somewhat balanced and it is set about where it was before I started working on the amp. Tells me maybe something was fishy before the repair. I know both channels are working because I can hear the stereo separation on records I'm familiar with although I did set it with a mono record.

I hooked up a pair of external speakers and disconnected the box speakers and the sound was pretty closely balanced with the balance control at 12:00. So, that tells me it's in the speaker wiring, the speakers, or that switch in the middle. I'm going to check that now. The speakers are identical and nothing looks like it's never been touched.

Before I took it apart, I changed the speaker switch from no to yes and the problem pretty much disappeared. It is balanced with the balance control set at 1:00 which is close enough for me. I thought that the switch was in the yes position only when others were in use in the same room?

Greg,
Read that box--it's a crossover network--and like it should say (and one of the books does say) the switch belongs in the NO position "--Unless---"
The switch may be dirty, or bad, one of the connectors may be loose, or something is wrong inside-- Ron Rich