I'd like to hook up with a Wurlitzer 2800 expert...

but I'm sure any juke box owners would like to have their one personal repairman.

Anyway, I'm going to have some odd and technical questions about my 2800. I just recently had the amp gone over by Mike Zuccaro who works out of San Diego CA. Mike is great to have as a source and I know he will help me a bit if I don't abuse the privilege. But, his web site says he doesn't give repair advice so I won't ask unless I'm really in a pinch.

So, for today, what in the world is the function of the clear plastic "record guide plate"? It trips the carousal with the slightest bump and the record lift arm jams. I'm have fits with that. I've blocked the plate for now but I could be easily persuaded to cut the wires to the micro switch. My unit has jammed so many times that I think the lift arm may be tweaked although is rises up square in the slot.

It just brushes the plate and the micro switch is activated. I worked the arm a little and it's better. The guide rollers are where they should be, so it's where the arm ends up that is the problem.

Thanks.

Edit: Well, I think working the arm a little has almost cured the problem I'd hate to break it while I'm getting it back straight, but all I need a a 1/16th of an inch. Hah! Getting into a juke box for the first time and I see a sixteenth is a mile to other worlds. I'm a carpenter by trade and we always said, "There are no sixteenths in a house." Wood moves that much daily.

Zeke,
Got the Service Manual ??
Best advice I can offer is not to do ANYTHING till after READING it !
If you don't have it, there is a list of sellers above this post--
Ron Rich

Zeke, first rule in dealing with machines:

Do NOT cut, bend or eliminate anything unless you know exactly what it is there for and what the consequences of your actions are.

The Safety Switch is easy to adjust. Facing the mech from the front, just below the right of the "fan" or stripper plate are two Phillips head screws. The bottom sets the position of the stripper plate and thus the plastic guides that contact the record as it is raised or lowered.

The top screw sets where the Safety Switch actuates. Turning it clockwise will get you some more clearance and allow more wiggle room on the stripper. Do not go overboard on this adjustment. I set them so that I can turn the stripper approximately a half-inch before the kill switch operates to shut the machine.

One of the problems in mass production of mechanical items such as these machines is that they are set up using jigs or a fixed set of instructions. This is good for maximizing line output but ignores the inevitable tolerances, especially where potmetal castings are involved. Overly sensitive kill switch and sloppy lift arm positioning was sometimes encountered when I restored these machines:

1700
1800 (3)
2100
2150
2304 (Stereo converted)
2300 (orig stereo)
2300 (Stereo converted)
2300 Left mono amp, mag pickup)
2400 (mono w/mag conv)
2400 (Stereo)
2600
2710 (100 sel)
2810
2900
3000

In every case I partially disassembled the mech, washed it and did a complete setup using the old shop manuals I have as a guide for the setup order, but actual feel and eyeballs for the final adjustments and positions.

I don't recommend "tinkering" but if you have the proper manual and actually study the operation, it is often possible to make these machines run smoother and with less wear and strain than when they were 'cranked out".

Rob/NYC

Mr. Rich, I have the service manual. I should have mentioned that and the fact that I have reviewed it many times. The way I see it is the manual makes little sense at first except to learn the proper names of the parts as you so often advise people to do so they may better communicate. After digging is the manual becomes a much better tool. That must be the way with all novices. Don't worry about me, I won't cut any wires.

Which brings me to Rob's post. You call it a stripper plate but I used the term right off the parts list. So, its function is that of a kill switch. Is my unit working as it should with the carousal wanting to turn under power and therefore jamming the lift arm in a record slot while still extended?

I do see the 2 screws and that's what I was about to adjust. Thank you for the guidelines as I didn't see that adjustment listed in the manual.

Zeke, the purpose of that kill switch is to prevent the carousel from turning if a record has not fully fallen back into it's slot (peeling label, etc).

The lift arms must be fully retracted with the "duckbills" that lift a records clearing the underside of the carousel.

One point here; these later machines used an AC gear motor to drive the changer. It is more delicate than the original DC gear motor designed for this mech back in the 50's. DO NOT let it jam! It will strip the gears in that box.

There are a number of minor mods that can improve the mech and sound, we can go into those once the main prob's are taken care of.

Rob

Thank you Ron. I'd love to not have the thing jam, believe me. I just put a half turn on the lower adjustment screw and that's all because the plate was already 3/64ths skewed. I started to play a record and the duckbill flipped open this time and hit the plate jamming the carousal one more time. The v-spring had slipped out of the duckbill. I have removed and installed these maybe 20 times now in situ and I'm getting pretty good at extracting the pin and losing parts to down below and taking 1 to 20 hours to find them.

But, I'm sick and tired of what seems to be the British way of doing things. IOW, if the Brits used a series of bell cranks, rods and rod ends, the Germans would use a cable in a flexible housing with only connections at either end.

I see no reason why a can't fabricate a fixed lift yoke to boost the records into place. I have enough of milling and lathe capabilities to make small parts like that. I'll just make a V shape 7/16ths wide (the spec in the manual) which will fit nicely in the guide rollers. I'll mount it with just the one screw so I can cant it one way or the other to fine tune it.

You see anything wrong with that idea?

Also, you say the purpose of the plate is to kill the action in case of a misfire. Well, jamming doesn't seem to help the cause. And, it only moves to the left, so I don't see how it benefits odd numbered selections loading from the left.

I'm not pig headed. I am impatient and I know that's a flaw when is comes to complicated mechs like this. However, my impatience has been the mother of invention on many an occasion. Unless you see a real reason for the duckbill in it's original form, I'm making a better mousetrap.

And I've finished my prototype design. It's short piece of 3/8ths hard rubber tubing. One end has had all but a flap cut out and that flap will attach to the arm with the screw. The other just has a V cut out with a high speed disc.

I'll let you know.

Zeke wrote: I started to play a record and the duckbill flipped open this time and hit the plate jamming the carousal one more time. The v-spring had slipped out of the duckbill. I have removed and installed these maybe 20 times now in

There no reason for the spring to come out of the duckbills. There is a small plate with an axle that runs through both duckbill hinge, spring and arm tip and is fixed with a "C" clip. These -never- normally fall out. Something must be missing or not properly installed.

If you need a diagram of the assembly I can scan one from my old shop manual.

Normally the duckbills are slightly compressed be the rollers that center the retracted arms. They remain compressed till just after entering the selected record carrier slot.

Building a fixed replacement for the duckbills might be OK for home use, fixed guides were used in the 100-104 models, but the 200's have the record slots much tighter and you may experience records slipping back and getting scratched by the arms if you use a fixed guide.

Personally, I recommend fixing the duckbill scheme.


Rob

Guy's,
I have "replaced hundreds" of them thar sprangs( and broken plastic parts)--They "jump" out of place when the lift arm fails to bottom fully, and the basket turns. Hint: Put a white towel down when working on them, you won't be as inclined to go fishing for whatever you dropped. Also--later design system is compatible with earlier one, and slightly easier to install. A good drawing is shown in most parts books.
It is my theory, that this problem occurs due solely to a lack of, or incorrect lubrication.
As for the "fixed duckbill" --I dono, might work, but i think I agree with Rob, on why it won't ??
Ron Rich

Gentlemen, thank you both again. I do have 2-3 photos and/or detailed line drawings showing the correct assembly of the hinged parts, the shaft, the phenolic spacer, the V-spring and the screws. I see the one screw enters a tab on the bottom that not only holds the wings together (or apart, if you will), but allows L and R adjustment. I have worked with these items for 3 solid days so I think I understand them well. To say something is out of whack of course is correct. I'm sure these things worked when the unit was new.

A little background: When I got the 2800 the duckbills were in little plastic parts bags that said they were parts for Webber carburetors. It wasn't until I fired up the box that I realized that the lift arms had nothing attached. Clearly the unit was taken out of service due to the problem involving the adjustment of these.

I may very well have not gotten the V-spring between the wings on the last try. I don't have the smallest hands and the work in situ leaning over the front of the box is difficult. BTW, I do use a white towel when I do this and it's caught the parts more times than not. It's the not that is frustrating, but you all know that.

I might give this one more try as I can play records all day long using the odd numbered selection keys and the left side arm. But the box is no good to me if the right arm gets hung up as it does because of the guide plate mech or faulty alignment of the wings. I'm convinced it's bent due to being jammed many times probably mostly before I even got this thing.

Zeke,
Hint--use some "heat shrink" to hold the spring closed. Once assembled--simply slip the heat shrink off--
Ron Rich

I wish I had thought of that. Thanks. I guess I'll have to ask since I don't see it on the manual, how do I get the lift arm up inside the basket for better access to the ducklbill ass'y? I've been selecting an open slot and letting the record spindle turn as if a record was in place and playing. I block the arm down about an inch and it seems to give me all the room I need. I have installed the duckbill while the arm is in the resting position, but it's way more difficult.

Also, I don't seem to understand the function of the record loading lever. I read the manual that it leaves selections already selected and disengages the changer motor circuit. What does that actually mean?

Zeke,
I do the same with the lift arm--
The record load "switch" , when moved to the "load" position lifts the two sensors above the pins, so the basket can turn freely without being stopped by a selected pin. It also shuts off power to the basket motor. If one fails to move the load arm, and "spins" the basket, the sensor will "crash" into any selected pin with disastrous results ! Ron Rich

Got it. I have never left any pins up but I may just have. I'll check it out. Meanwhile I have the duckbill back in place but I think it exceeds the 7/16th inch width max. I think it needs to be replaced with a new one.

I'm getting closer. I'm playing a record on the right side as I type.

Yep, the wings of the duckbill are too wide and out of spec. It's too touchy to adjust. It has a tendency to catch on one side or the other OR trip the guide plate/kill switch. I don't know if these guide clips were new when I got them or not. They've been through some carnage while I've been sorting this. I don't see why I don't epoxy the things just about parallel and suffer the occasional record not picked up.

But, I guess I can buy some replacements. I talked to Zuccaro this morning and he gave me a source. I don't know if it's OK to mention vendors by name here.

Zeke,
The "plastic" gets broken "down inside"--someone made some of those up in metal once--I have seen them somewhere--
Always OK to mention vendors here--in fact, if not already listed above in "Parts--new-used--where to find", please list any vendors, you find-- (also--BTW--don't listen to Mike--and tell him I said so --
All kidding aside--he's a great guy, who really knows what he is talking about --) Ron Rich