help with ID on a Victor wood horn

Today I found a Victor ( with decal ) 22" wood horn. In researching I saw one on a Vic III and they called it a speartip horn.
Can someone provide some info on it and which machines they came with.
It is in good condition ( some veneer damage/loss 5%.....the veneer is dry and I just applied spray wax)

Thanks for any help.....Mike

The Victor Wood horns were sold to customers for an additional charge, and were available for all models.

Sometimes, it's hard to tell if the wood is Oak or Mahogany, because the shellac finish has darkened to a deep amber color, obscuring the wood grain and original color.

The Oak horns, which had a distinctive "tiger stripe" appearance--->


(MORE PHOTOS HERE: http://www.talkingmachines.com/vtmoh.html)

... would have been for the

Vic. I -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/Victor%20I.htm
Vic. II -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/Victor%20II.htm
Vic. III -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/Victor%20III.htm
Vic. V* -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/Victor%20V.htm

which had oak cases.

The Mahogany horn, which had more of a blended looking finish--->


(More photos here -- http://www.mechantiques.com/phonographs.asp)


...would have been used on the

Vic. IV -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/Victor%20IV.htm
Vic. VI -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/Victor%20VI.htm

(*NOTE: a few late production Vic. V models have surfaced in Mahogany.)

HTH,
Joe_DS

Joe, Thank you very much for taking the time to post photos.........Mine is very dark, but I will try to look closely and see if I can make the grain out and compare.

I have seen a number of diff ways to clean the finish...........do you have any tips??

And again, really appreciate the photos.

I have a VV XI and rebuilt a Columbia external horn machine for my son.........Now I have to decide whether to find a reasonable priced machine to go with this horn OR try to sell it. Leaning towards the machine...lol

Would you know what price range this horn is in...... External has almost no damage....on the lower part inside.....about 9 of the rounded pieces right under the spears are missing...I was going to see what matching veneers are available.......I think polished up it will look fantastic.

Thanks again Mike

Joe,
As far as I can tell, this is Mahogany.......the grain is very small and where a piece is missing it is reddish

Photos were to large to upload.........I was getting a size error (sorry)

Appreciate your comments.....

Hi Mike:

I saw the photos you posted on John's new board. (I copied and pasted one below.) I'd say it's a safe guess that mahogany is spot on. That means that this could be used on a Vic. VI or the smaller Vic IV, as noted above.

I have to admit that I have not tracked prices for wooden horns for some time, but I do know that they come up for sale--from time to time--on eBay, and other places. I've never seen a fair/good condition oak horn sell for less than about $1,500 in recent years. (I know a mahogany horn would probably fetch far more.)

If your plans are to sell the horn, I'd recommend that you leave it in as-found condition, since most hard core collectors would probably want to do any restoration work on it, themselves, or have it professionally done by someone with the skills to do an authentic job. But, considering the fact that prices, overall, for antiques have fallen during the current economic downturn--and this includes antique phonographs--you may want to hold onto the horn until things start to recover.

If you are able to locate a reasonably priced Vic. IV, then your best bet would be to restore the horn at the time you do any cabinet restoration, so they match. In this case, a good cleaning with an abrasive polish-cleaner would probably be a good place to start. There have been a number of tips posted about this, online. Do a search at http://www.google.com for the following key words -- cleaning shellac surface Victrola

HTH,
Joe_DS

Joe.......Thanks for the advice. I will check out google as you indicated.

As you noted on current prices, it may be just the right time to look for a machine as opposed to parting with it. A nice set-up like a Vic IV or VI would look nice around the house! I'll keep my eye out and watch auction/estate sales and posts.

Being retired now......it gives me time to look and work on them ( although I have has a Edison Cyl machine apart for 1 year now....you also get lazy)

The last project I did was rebuild a Columbia Standard Horn machine as a gift for my son last year. And I still have a VV- XI not quite finished yet.

Appreciate all your help........These sites are a great for collector information and meeting helpful people.

Thanks Mike

What exactly is wrong with this mahogany horn that might warrant "restoration"?

I haven't seen any pictures beyond what out own Joe_DS has kindly supplied here but if it is simply the crazing you're worried out, please do not be tempted to strip it down or worse.

It is possible to get the original shellac looking bright and shiny again without either dissolving it (as most US collectors seem to favour doing) or removing it and refinishing it altogether.

The solution involves you and a lot of elbow grease! Simply apply a cutting paste to a cloth and rub the horn down with nothing more than that. It takes time and patience but the end result is more than worth the effort and you will be rewarded with a horn in "original condition" at the end.

I use Brasso (on a cloth soaked in turps) or car paint restorer on a soft cloth. Once "cut back" you will need to clean the horn with White Spirit and finish with a coat of clear wax.

The polish on this horn looks perfectly sound to me and definitely capable of getting back to a perfectly smooth and shiny reflective finish. Okay, you'll still have faint lines of crazing in it but that is part of the horn's age and character and perfectly acceptable to most collectors.

Once removed you can never get the original finish back.

As I said though, I haven't seen it in full so there might be other "issues" with it?

BTW it's definitely mahogany.

Steve