SEEBURG R - RESTORATION - MECH PROBLEM

Looking for some suggestions on what to look for with this mech problem.
What i've Done:
I have de-greased the entire mech - have not removed the clutch for internal cleaning.
The Problem i'm having is when i power the unit up (Service switch in normal operation) the mech scan continually back and forth.
I have tried making selections - never stops to pick up selection. If i trip it manually (trip lever), the mech will pick up the record, but, the when i reaches the end it seems the trip switch isn't working - so i have to trip it manually again for it to return the record - afterwards it just scans and scans back and forth.

Thanks
Gary

Hi Gary,
Do you have the service manual ? Do you understand the sequence of operation on that model. If so, see the trouble shooting guide in it. If not, read the manual. IMHO, my Seeburg Mechanism Guide should help you understand it (PM me if you wish to purchase a copy). Did you re-build the SA Unit? Ron Rich

Thanks Ron - i do have the manual - this is the update on what i have done.
I took the WSR7-L6 receiver (that is restored) out of my other good working\restored (and by the way sounds amazing) Seeburg R to put in this one to help narrow down the problem - amp is not connected.
Selections made do move the pins out on the control block, mech starts (and going right to left) stops at every record spot and puts it immed. back - when we get all the way to the left it reverses directions and scans all the way to the end (not stopping at all or picking up the selection or resetting the pin) then starts all over again stopping from right to left. Thinking the problem is in the mech\control block - any suggestions based on your experience on what to look for ?

Not sure of what you are calling the "control block"--please use terms in the manual for clarity.
From what I can understand, it appears that you have two different problems--they could be related to the contact block (aka "frog") that rides the SA Unit, or not. If the mech is stopping at a pulled pin, is the frog getting PAST that pin ? Is the pin cancel coil energizing, and the striker missing the pin, or not ? The adjustment of the SA Unit/ and frog is critical. Have you, or anyone else "moved" that phono withOUT properly adding the two shipping bolts for transportation ? Ron Rich

Yes it is the SA ( frog), doesn't stop at pulled pin that is out and it does go past it. Pin cancel coils do not appear to be firing. Hate to admit it.but the unit was moved without the bolts and was laid on its back, the price you pay for free delivery.

OK--Moving them that way usually causes damage to the frog area--sometimes it's a repairable amount of damage, by just "adjusting" the frog, and the frog support--other times, it will result in damage sever enough that you will need to replace the drive bracket. and sometimes one need replace the contact arm ( that supports the lift arm, and drive bracket).
First thing to assess is the relationship of the frog to the drive bracket. The frog MUST be contained INSIDE the "U" shaped drive bkt. If I'm guessing right--you will find the plastic is not fully contained in the U, inside the steel spring.
If that's the case, carefully push the spring steel out of the way, and re-insert the frog in the correct area.
This MAY "cure" all your ills-- let me know-- Ron Rich

Ron Rich wrote:Not sure of what you are calling the "control block"--please use terms in the manual for clarity.
Ron Rich

"Thing-a-ma-bob"
"Thing-a-ma-jiggy"
"Doo-hicky"
"Ratchet-thingy"

There.
Proper terms.

Oh, I almost forgot...
Whatcha-ma-jigger

Mattie,
Didn't yomomma ever teach you--Iffin you kant say something nice, dont say nothin a-tall !
The proper term, as EVERYBODY knows is, whchewmakallit ! Ron Rich

It looks okay, i think, i have attached some pics of the SA\frog and a link to a short video of the problem when scanning left - thanks again for your help with this.

Video: https://youtu.be/hkvelVIdOdw

Thanks Gary

Hi Gary,
I can't really tell from the photo's--but it appears to me the plastic frog is sitting on top of, rather then inside the spring, on the left side ? If so, that has to be resolved--look at your working mechanism-- Also on the vid--obviously the sensor is NOT passing the pin, on the first try--this is usually a result of the same frog alignment problem--
Ron Rich

Thanks Ron - yes the frog was not positioned correctly in the spring - so after correcting that i have tried to follow the procedure in the manual "Contact Block Alignment". After i loosen the screws on the contact block (frog) and try and position the contact block levers A1 and A2 (centered) between the left and right contacts i do not have enough adjustment. I move the contact block all the way to the left but the A1 lever is sitting on the left contact - it needs to move a bit more to the left in order to be centered ... what do you think ? Are there any other adjustments i'm missing ? Thanks

Okay - so many hours later and adjustments i'm almost there - left with two problems,
B side pin cancel (pin reset) coil not working and all B side selections (A2, B2 ...) immed. reject the record and then reload back - and on and on ....

Hi Gary,
Your problem remains that the "U" shaped bracket is not securing the frog properly. It is either bent, or mal-formed from shipping the phono without tie down bolts installed. It appears that the bracket is lower on the left side in the earlier photos--is that still the case ? If so, is the spring forcing the frog to the other end of the bracket ?--It should be--
Fix that problem and watch the sensors as you play A-1/A-2. The frog MUST be adjusted so that the sensor passes the selected pin prior to the record arriving on the ramp. This MUST be true on both sides, of the records, and at both ends of the SAU. (A-1 and K-0) end. Ron Rich

I think i know the problem - can you confirm.
All Selections on the A side work as they should, B Side is the problem and i think the B side pin cancel solenoid is bad. The A side measures 4.8 ohms and works fine, the B side measures 23 ohms and does not reset any of the B side pins.
I did select a B side and as the record clamped i pushed the pin manually (since the coil wasn't firing) and it played the record, at the end put in back, and parked there waiting for the next selection (normal on the R box) . Does this make sense or am i missing something ?
As always - thanks for your help with

Hi Gary,
It appears to me that you are still missing the fact that the sensor MUST pass the selected pin before the record rides all the way up the ramp--If it were doing this, the phono would play the selected record without returning the record to the rack, even if it did not "cancel" the pin. If it only failed to cancel the pin it would play the record, like it should, then return it to the rack, and scan seeking whatever pin ( the same one) was still in the selected position, and THEN, play it again (Sam?).
I think that you have two problems left--a bent/poorly adjusted bracket and a bad coil (if you are reading the coil correctly). Ron Rich