Needle tracking pressure

My Seeburg AY-160 service manual says the needle tracking pressure should be between 4.5 and 5.5 grams for a stereo system. I have a problem with tracking toward the end of the record, so I will be going through the manual for the tonearm adjustments.

I don't have a gram gauge and this is the only thing I will need one for, so I am hesitant to buy one... But I am inventive and can make a spring gauge which is reasonably accurate, however I need a common reference for weight. I have read in many places that a US nickel weighs 5 grams which is right where I would want the pressure to be.

But really the weight of a nickel? That seems excessive to me and I wanted to know what others think before I set the tracking pressure to the weight of a nickel, measured on a spring gauge. I can show my plans for the DIY spring gauge but it's simple and pretty much straight forward.

Not being familier with that model, but if the arm/record is horizontal style., invest in a gram gauge.
For 12 bucks at Harbor Freight you can get a small digital scale that's accurate to within .01 grams up to 1000 grams.
Those scales must be asked for at the counter, since drug dealers steal them.

Steve, the answer to this sort of problem is NOT more pressure. that just ruins records.

Two suggestions:

1) Check that the trip switch spring that biases the switch is doing it's job and making the trip action easier. In general I set them with the biasing spring as far down as possible without it causing erroneous tripping The trip "whisker" ideally should not load the arm till the arm is in/right near the end spiral.

2) Be sure that the arm is balanced. There should be no tendency for the arm to want to swing outward or inward at any point of it's arc. This can be tricky to determine give the nature of the arm position, but try to adjust it so that it will ride on your finger nail without slipping off.


That cart will track just fine at 3 grams especially if you eliminate the damping. Ron and I disagree on this, but I have long disabled the vertical damping cylinder on all my location machines. This allows the arm to more quickly follow minor variations in the record "flatness". To eliminate the damping, loosen the locknut at the canter-front of the arm's cylinder. then back the screw in the center of it just enough to allow the arm to freely move as it would following vertical warp on a record. Then re-tighten the locknut -don not over-tighten.

That arm/cart should work well with springs at their minimum force.

I used two HLPCs on location and currently have an LPC floor model in service. This is how I set them up.

Rob

MattTech wrote:Not being familier with that model, but if the arm/record is horizontal style., invest in a gram gauge.
For 12 bucks at Harbor Freight you can get a small digital scale that's accurate to within .01 grams up to 1000 grams.
Those scales must be asked for at the counter, since drug dealers steal them.

Matt, these machines along with Wurlitzer and NSM play the record vertically.

You have to use a spring tension gauge like this:

http://www.pkneuses.com/www.pkneuses.com/spri.htm Costs about $30-$35.

I bought several for my operation because accurate tracking parameters are important when records are going to get thousands of plays.

For home use running the tonearm pressure springs at the minimum position and balancing the arm is enough.

This site has some detailed pics of the Seeburg mechs and the pressure springs are easy to see:

http://jukeboxesunlimited.com/howwerebuild.html

Rob

In the days that I worked with Seeburg and NSM well over 35 years ago we used the very small fishing style weighing scales for setting up Seeburg, NSM or any other jukebox. I have not seen that type of scale for years. On the Rowe Ami's I have several types of scales including the latest electronic scales (ok for weighing gold or diamonds I am told).

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

Steve,
IF--"somebody" has not "messed with" the spring adjustments, they are correct--they ( or any other "adjustments") do NOT change, by "them-self" ! Look at the lock bar, and the counter balance spring adjustments, for your end of record problem. Ron Rich

Thank you all for the great advice and links!

I did the adjustment per service manual for tonearm balance and had to give the counterwight a few spins. I'll need to get that gram scale. I noticed a dramatic difference in spring pressure of side 1 vs side 2 so one or both are off.

Thanks again!
-Steve

BTW
Does anyone know the part number of the needles and a source to get them? It would be nice to find an extra set but geese they are hard to find! My AY-160 has the red head stereo cartridge.

Steve,
That info is contained in the "I&O manual" for your model, and also in my "Seeburg Mechanism Guide".
I do have a few pair of diamond, NOS, OEM, Seeburg/Pickerings, that I will sell at an unreasonable price, as I had to pay dearly for them. PM me if you wish to purchase either the guide, or needles.
Ron Rich

Thank you all for the great suggestions.

I got a gauge and set the pressure according to the procedure in the service manual, except a bit lighter to just under 4g's. Glad I did. The record side which I set a bit heavier a couple weeks ago came in under 3g's, and the other side which I didn't touch was found set way up to almost 9g's. Wow!

Both sides now set to just under 4g's and no problems. All you guys are great and we who are new to jukeboxes would be lost. Appreciated.