Your experience on HMV/Victor 4 spring motor ???

Hi,
I hope some of you can help me with this one; I have a fully serviced HMV 4 spring motor N°34, but it doesn't seem to be powerfull enough. Underneath I will describe how it works now, and explain what's been done to it, but first I will ask the main question:

How manny 10" or 12" records should a HMV/Victor 4 spring motor play, being fully wound up?
(and, from fully un-wound, how manny windings does it normally take to a full wind-up?)

My HMV N°34 motor now plays 3 records (10" and 12") and slows down or doesn't start with a fourth record. Even to play the first record, I have to be sure it is fully wound, or it will slow down during playing.
While running, I can easily stop the motor by taking the top of the turntable spindle between thumb and fingers; this is hardly possible when tried to my 2 spring motor N°32.
The 2-spring motor N°32 seems to be more powerfull than my N°34 4-spring motor.

The motor is all cleaned up, and tested with its original springs; after that, I repaced these springs with 4 new made springs (slightly shorter than the original ones); In both cases the results are the same. Everything is well greased and oiled, also the friction leathers. Also changed gearing, governor and even a frame to test, and no real improvement...

A friend rebuild a Victor 4-spring motor, and has about the same results. (plays hardly two 12" records) He had larger springs, and wonders if shorter springs would perform better?

Another "internet"friend, has had 4 spring motor in the past, and says they should play four 12" records, and if not too long, six 10" records.

I hope someone can tell if my motor is ok or not, and do suggestions for improvement.

Thanks,
Peter.

Hello Peter,
I hope you have long since received help with the motor, and in any case I don't have mechanical expertise. However I have had a HMV gramophone with the 34 motor and still have a Victor with the American equivalent. In both cases the motors could get through four twelve inch 78s, though the last one would be very slightly lower in pitch in comparison to the previous three, due, I'd imagine, to the lack of spring power. They both could easily handle three 12 inch records in normal playing though.

Hi Frankia,

As you noted, this is quite an old post, and hopefully Peter was able to resolve what sounds like a sluggish or underpowered motor. (Odd there were no other replies.)

In any event, that's been my experience with Victor four spring motors, as well. I once timed the four spring motor in a Credenza I used to own, and it ran for slightly over 20 minutes, or easily enough to play about three or four 12-inch sides. I remember that it took about 80 turns of the crank handle for a full wind.

My VV-4-40, which has two spring motor, runs for about 12 minutes and it takes about 50 turns of the crank to wind it fully; though I seldom do that, preferring, instead, to give it a few turns of the crank between records.

Joe

If the motor has been completely taken apart, springs repacked, oiled/greased,reassembled properly,etc., then the 20 minute running time sounds correct. I've never counted how many handle turns it takes to fully wind a motor.The reason I'm commenting here is that main springs CAN loose some of their strength with age; also the motor's gears may be slightly worn- just enough to cause enough friction to cause "premature slowing". As a side note, in using our machines, I always wind the motor after inserting the new needle & placing the record on the table- old habit I guess- and therefore never take full advantage of the 4 spring motors...

Hi,

thank you for the reply's.

I sort of came to peace with the motor's performance; the trouble is that it's my first four-spring motor, and have no real comparison. Besides that,
the reproducer used on it is a Lumière (HMV model 510), and that's my first lumière as well, so two new things with nothing really to compare...

As you suggested it takes about 80 turns to a full wind, and 20 minutes run,
my motor seems to be ok then, as this is how it works now.
BUT, it doesn't play four 12 inch records, only 3. It will play 4 10 inch records, if in good condition (worn records will slow down even on a fully wound-up motor - which on my 2-spring motor would not be the case, even if its the 3 record on that wind)

A lot depends on the adjustment of the Lumière, because now after many, many adjustments I think I have the best position possible on this machine (at least I can't do better)
You can reduce the weight of the Lumière by adjusting, but when you go to far in that, the Lumière will not fold down back right for closing the lid.

So I think the final conclusion is that the motor is fine, and the Lumière might be the reason for the lesser performance, due to the weight of it, I guess.

Nevertheless it is surprising how long the motor keeps running after it's not powerfull enough for playing a record....

Again, thank you for the replies, and if there's anyone who can give advice on adjusting Lumières, please let me know.

Best regards,
Peter.