Seeburg V200 Record failed to return magazine.

Hi Friends, My Seeburg V200 was playing just fine until today. When the record finished playing it failed to return to the magazine. I tried to reject the record with negative results. The carriage motor is still running and I'm unable to engage any buttons from the juke box or wall box. Your help please. Preston--- Syracuse NY..

Preston, there seem to be two, separate things going on here.

If the mech fails to trip -especially on on original V I suspect a 2D21. Does the Reject button work (is it even connected?). If it can trip via the button, suspect a broken wire at the trip switch.

Lack of response(s) from other sections:

-Stepper: Are the stepper wheels returning to home position? Failure of teh number wheel to home will hold out the keyboard.

Do you see any action in the stepper when a wallbox is sending? Another 2D21 may be at fault.

There isn't any single failure mode that would result in the T-T still running while nothing else works -at least none that I have encountered. The only section common here is the low-DC and if that failed all the thyratrons will ignite continuously. The most obvious symptom would be the mech cycling continuously and stepper remaining pulled-in on letters.

Rob

Hi Rob, I checked the 2d21 tubes they are all fine. I use a remote hand switch for volume & reject. The reject doesn"t work now.

Hi Preston,
Not quite sure I understand your problems??
What do you mean by "--not able to engage---" ? Are you saying that you can not establish credit so that the buttons lock down to make a selection, or that they seem to be operating, but the mechanism is not responding ?
On the failure to return the record to the rack--is the clamp arm disc still holding onto the record--if so, remove the mechanism cover and lift the detent lever--see what happens--when's the last time phono was properly oiled ?? Is this truly still a "V-200", or is it a "VX-200" ?
Ron Rich

Hi Preston,
OK--it is still a V-200, if it has 2D21's--How do you know that they "are fine" ?? If you swap the one marked "trip", with another one, will it now trip off the record ? Ron Rich

PTL8GRANDKIDS wrote:Hi Rob, I checked the 2d21 tubes they are all fine. I use a remote hand switch for volume & reject. The reject doesn"t work now.

As often the case, i agree with Ron regarding teh 2D21's. but try the following if you are sure you have good tubes.

Ok, manually trip mech with the lever as per Ron's suggestion to reject the record -then trip it again to play a record. In play mode measure the voltage across the trip switch contacts and mech ground as well as the same voltage on the remote reject on your RVC. There should be approx a minus 25 vdc.

You may have the correct version of this for your un-modded V, but look at this schematic for the trip ckt on a VL:
http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... a.jpg.html

The mech is inside the dotted area. As you can see there are several sets of contacts on both stacks on the mech that both open the trip & reject circuit during scan and stand-by and close it during play mode so that it can trip the mech.

Place the pickup in the trip groove and, use a plastic end of a pen or similar implement, carefully jog the blades of both stacks. If the mech suddenly trips, one set of contacts is not completely closing in play mode.

Also note that on the last V and all VL's the clamp arm switch was bypassed by jumping pins 3 &4 of plug J5. These are called the "W" contacts and that jumper should be added on the chassis (female) plug if not already present.

Unfortunately, none of this addresses the wallbox issue. Is the box lit and does it credit when coin is inserted (if still on-coin)? Does the motor run when both buttons are pressed. These actions are essentially independent of the machine and only use the 25VAC from the selection receiver. The wallbox will go through the motions whether the tubes and stepper are connected and working or not.

There is a (hopefully) remote possibility that the approx 150 VAC for the plates of all 2D21's has failed due to an open winding in the main transformer. Check for this voltage at pin 6 of all 2D21 tubes. be careful not to accidentally short that voltage to chassis ground. That winding is not too robust.

Rob

Hi Rob & Ron, I switched the 2d21 tubes as you suggested and nothing changed. The record is on the flywheel and while pushing the detent lever the turntable hardly moved, & the record didn't reject. I receive no credits when pressing the wall box & juke box buttons & they don't lock down when doing so. Also there is no sound from the stepper unit when using the wall box. Preston

Hi Guys,
Somehow I'm still "missing something"?? As Rob said--an open connection, or,winding, on the main transformer ?
On the WOM, is it lit ?? Is the revolving arm in the "stop", "credit", or "operate" position ? Un-plug the WOM from the TSR and see if the keyboard will show credits/operate as normal --
Also-on the jumped "W" contacts--IMHO, this is not necessary, as long as those contacts are clean--they DO NOT have any relationship to the clamp arm switch, which was eliminated during the V production--for awhile (see my Seeburg Mechanism guide). The "W" contacts serve the same purpose here, as on all other models that have them, before, and after, the tube type Tormat system. Ron Rich

Preston, I am a bit confused here. Let's get to basics:

1) Is the turntable tuning?

2) Are any of the tubes lit -in either unit?

3) Are the machine lights plugged into the selection receiver, or into the outlet on the machine side wall? this one doesn't really factor here if the internal wiring in the selection receiver has been changed.

The basic question is whether the main fuse in the receiver has blown.

Rob

Hi Rob,
Welcome to my world ( of total mass confuzzion ) !!
My guess would be that you have nailed it--main 5 amp fuse blown--except I think he mentioned that the tubes were "lit",
and the TT is turning, sometime, many posts ago?? Ron Rich

Well, I guess i am in good company.....

Here are the two sentences that seen confusing:

The carriage motor is still running......

&

[quote][The record is on the flywheel and while pushing the detent lever the turntable hardly moved,..../quote]

I assume that he meant to say that he -lifted- the detent lever. But I am now not clear as the whether the table is turning -or not.

If motor is not turning and tubes are not lit, that points to the main fuse.

Rob

Rob,
Well, I won't comment on the "company you keep"--but it is also confuzzing me as to how one could have "pushed" on the Detent lever ??
Lift it, or pushed DOWN, on it, is all I can envision ?? Ron Rich

Hi Rob & Ron, I will admit I confused you by using the word engaged & the statement about the detent lever. I was going to give you more information but I was unable to get back to you on your numerous responses. Rob to answer your basics questions, the tubes, lights, all were lit, all the fuses looked good. The turntable was turning at first, but stopped & I didn't get back to tell you this before you listed your basic questions. So it was found the Motor Coupling had failed & once replaced, everything is operating fine. Say Ron, you asked me in one of your replies, is my Juke Box a V200 or VX200. Mine is a V200 and I think you meant VL200, I guess you just hit the wrong key right? Thanks Ron & Rob for your patients & help. Preston--Syracuse NY.

Hi Preston,
Glad you found it !!
There were three "basic" V models built--two different cabinets. V-200's were first, VX-200's were factory built,, or V's, modified in the field ( used the standard V cabinet and if done correctly, should have been so signified on the ID tag by the addition of an "X"), and the VL-200 series--then you have the pricing unit variations, as sometimes noted on the ID tag ---The easy way to tell is to look at the TSR--does it have 2D21 tubes, or 2050's (TSR-1, or TSR-3). Ron Rich

Hi Ron, Thanks for the info.. Preston --Syracuse NY.