Using a Seeburg 3W1 Select-O-Matic with

Gentz,
R-3 is a 47 ohm--R-4 is a 470K ohm one watt. I also use an AB 100 ohm 1/2 watt resistor here for the same reason as Rob--
Rob,
I believe you are somewhat mistaken, as I seem to recall (not 100% sure of this !), that the coil was changed from 400 to 700 ohms on the TSR-1, as used in the V-200. The TSR-3, for the VL, had 500 ohm coils, and they remained so till, the SSU's--??
Ron Rich

Ron Rich wrote:Gentz,
R-3 is a 47 ohm--R-4 is a 470K ohm one watt. I also use an AB 100 ohm 1/2 watt resistor here for the same reason as Rob--
Rob,
I believe you are somewhat mistaken, as I seem to recall (not 100% sure of this !), that the coil was changed from 400 to 700 ohms on the TSR-1, as used in the V-200. The TSR-3, for the VL, had 500 ohm coils, and they remained so till, the SSU's--??
Ron Rich

Ron, you are correct. I had 700 on the coils in the TSR-1 and the four RCSU3's here have 500ohm on the steppers.

Rob

Hi Rob,
Attsa whut I re-memored ---thanks for the confirmation!!
Ron Rich

Ok, status update:

At the Seeburg selector unit (in jukebox) I replaced the broken 47ohm resistor at the 2050 anode and 5uf Cap. 2050 tube still not responding to signal from 3W1 or any tests (I even tried to ground the blue signal wire that feeds pin 5 of the 2050 grid). The tube has the normal Amber standby glow and I placed it on my tube tester. Results: When I depress the trigger (P5) with the [BIAS] set to zero it glows purple. It also reads [GOOD] as I raise the [BIAS] it continues to read good and glow purple until [BIAS] reaches about 40 (tester notation reads: strikes at about 38), then the purple glow shuts off immediately and the meter drops to 0. My question, is it supposed to glow purple at [BIAS] zero-38 and shut off at about 38? Or is it supposed to only glow at about 38. I was thinking the purple glow was the tube striking. In that case it's backwards…

I metered all of the 2050 pins (at standby):
At pin 4 (-25v) and 5 (-28v). All other pins show no voltage, please help.

Any other testing tips would be appreciated.

-Tony

Alright guys, here is the latest breakdown of my Seeburg 3W1 to 100G integration:

To fill everyone in on the whole story: I have a Seeburg 100G and a 3W1 wall box. The 100G amp has been previously rebuilt (caps and resistors) but the selector unit was mainly original.

What I have done to the selector unit (in 100G):

I replaced all of the caps and the broken 47ohm resistor at the 2050 plate. I also replaced the 5uf cap with a 5uf 250v motor start capacitor. I tested the signal coming from the 3W1 at the remote unit and at the 100G 3 pin plug. It was strong at both ends (I used the 24V lightbulb method). The 2050 tube is present and glows amber. I removed it and put it on my tube tester and it reads "good" and glows purple until I dial the [BIAS] up to the noted 40 units. Then the purple glow promptly shuts off and the voltage (good/bad) dial drops to 0. So BIAS 0-40 purple, anything over 40 off. Seems backwards to me, but what do I know.

My problem/symptoms:

When I select songs on the 3W1 the internal motor runs fine, the pulsing signal gets to the 100G ok, but the 2050 tube doesn't respond. I even tried to ground the (blue) input cable from the 3W1, still nothing, just the standby amber glow.

My question:

What would cause the 2050 tube to not respond to any input? The 47ohm plate resistor was broken, but has been replaced, all caps have been replaced, is it possible the 2050 tube is bad, even though it tested "good". What voltage should read at the tube socket? I get -24v at pin 4 and -28v at pin 5, all others have no voltage. What is left to service in this circuit to get the tube to respond?

Thank you

-Tony

Sent from my iPhone

Tony, there has to be approx 150VAC @ Pin 3 (plate) on the 2050 at all times.

If you look at the receiver or schematic you'll see that this voltage sources from a winding on the transformer going directly to the point where both stepper coils are connected and is switched at the ground return via the Transfer relay and the tube.

I have a feeling that is the wire that was cut and taped. If so, this may be a simple matter that some 'person" just goofed-up...or it may indicate a stepper coil that had a short to chassis ground.

Find the common point where the two coils get the 150v and test to chassis ground, it is probably on the terminal strip behind the stepper. There should be no reading -open. Then hold down the transfer relay and check again. Again; no reading.

Next, check the impedance of each coil. This can be done by measuring from the aforementioned common point of the two coils to the top and bottom contacts on the transfer relay. Look for around 500 ohms.

Rob

Rob-NYC wrote:Find the common point where the two coils get the 150v and test to chassis ground, it is probably on the terminal strip behind the stepper. There should be no reading -open. Then hold down the transfer relay and check again. Again; no reading

Rob

Rob,

I found the common point. It's at the terminal strip where c12 is and ties into the 5uf cap at the 2050 tube. No reading! Also no voltage at the 5uf motor start cap… naturally.

-Tony

Tony,
Got the service manual--read across the 150 volt winding --got it there ??
Ron Rich

Ron Rich wrote:Tony,
Got the service manual--read across the 150 volt winding --got it there ??
Ron Rich

Ron I found the two150v wires. (Not [red] grr. One goes to pin 8 of the 2050 tube, the other is the clipped wire, surprise, surprise!

I checked the wiring on the bottoms of the [unit] and [group] step relays and no wires were clipped. Of the four wires, one of each are tied together on one side of the C3 (5uf) cap, the 2nd wire on the group step leads to the transfer relay [magnet], and the 2nd wire on the [unit] step ties at a terminal strip to a yellow wire at the selector switch leaf switch. No clue where the clipped [red] wire ties in.

Any ideas?

-Tony

Color jockey wrote:

Ron Rich wrote:Tony,
Got the service manual--read across the 150 volt winding --got it there ??
Ron Rich

Ron I found the two150v wires. (Not [red] grr. One goes to pin 8 of the 2050 tube, the other is the clipped wire, surprise, surprise!

I checked the wiring on the bottoms of the [unit] and [group] step relays and no wires were clipped. Of the four wires, one of each are tied together on one side of the C3 (5uf) cap, the 2nd wire on the group step leads to the transfer relay [magnet], and the 2nd wire on the [unit] step ties at a terminal strip to a yellow wire at the selector switch leaf switch. No clue where the clipped [red] wire ties in.

Any ideas?

-Tony

I wonder if the tie point is at the C3 cap, that is where I found the clipped wire.…

-Tony

Ok guys. Success! The trouble was that the red (150v) stepper relay supply wire was clipped. The difficult part was to figure out where it tied in. It was at the 5uf cap [C3]. It was probably clipped because something shorted causing the 150v supply resistor [R4] at the 2050 tube anode (pin 3) to split. What that was, I may never know. Once I re-established the power supply to the 2050, the remote unit successfully triggered it, resulting in the glorious sound of the stepper relays finally clicking away. But the glory was short lived because the record (tone arm) transport wasn't triggered. After trying another selection I was able to get two or three selections to work. I then knew the problem was dirty contacts in the selector switches. I removed both sides, sprayed with contact cleaner and carefully rubbed them with a small piece of very fine 00000 steel wool. Re-assembled and now everything works perfectly!

Thank you everyone for all of your input and guiedence. Your knowledge is priceless and appreciated!

-Tony

Tony, I was just getting logged-in to tell you where the wire goes...but you found it.

Now that you'll be using it more, has the mechanism been properly oiled?

Rob

Rob-NYC wrote:Tony, I was just getting logged-in to tell you where the wire goes...but you found it.

Now that you'll be using it more, has the mechanism been properly oiled?

Rob

Do you mean the main motor/tone arm carriage? Yes, other than the selector unit the 100G had been fully restored/maintained and I have been oiling the mechanism every several months. Although, I would like to figure out how to reduce some of the scratchiness I hear on some/most records. Even the ones in NM condition have a little bit. Maybe I am just spoiled by mp3s

-Tony

Yes, I referred to the mech itself.

As far as sound quality, that opens up a whole new topic.

First off, what pickup are you using?

The original was called a "blackhead": http://www.jukeboxparts.com/IMG_7824.JPG

These were often replaced with the following year's "redhead": http://www.jukeboxparts.com/RedHead%20Cart%20001.JPG

Neither of these were capable of playing stereo records without damaging the stereo image in the grooves. Their overall compliance wasn't very good either.

In 1958 Seeburg introduced their first stereo box and used another Pickering cart which also came in two versions; red and black. Both were electrically identical and interchangeable.

Over the years a number of aftermarket mashups were produced, most used ceramic pickups and are far from ideal.

In 1990 Pickering informed me that they would no longer make the styli for the original mono and stereo carts but would be making a new one that would use versions of the styli they had adapted for juke use in 1966.
In 1992 I got the first prototypes of the 345-03D: http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... rt=2&o=147
Aside from some quality control problems with the two first samples and the fact that these require some addition weight on them or cutting of the counterweights (my preference) these carts produce the best possible sound from these old machines and I use them on all location machines. Unfortunately, they are really expensive and no longer made. Neither are the original styli. There are workarounds for the styli problem.

Post a pic of the cart on your machine.

Rob

Ok, I just realized that later song titles are out by one. Selecting K1 plays J10. The A and B titles select correctly… do I need to adjust the selector plates? There are 2, which one controls the later titles?

-Tony