Looking for advice on an LPC480

Hello,

I am new here on the forum and am looking at picking up my first juke, an LPC480 work in progress.

My situation is similar to that of babycat's LPC1. The unit I am looking at is located two hours away from me and is going for $250 Canadian. It is currently partially restored and the seller tells me that the unit functioned prior to blowing the main fuse. He has done some recapping as well as replacing some resistors, including the four ohm pot in the Transistorized Auto Speed Unit. According to the seller, all the parts are there. As an added bonus, the deal includes 200+ 7" records. It would also appear that the 'Impulsion' system is intact. I guess we Canadians are a tad more relaxed about these things.

This is a short turnaround and as such I haven't been able to secure all the documentation. I was able to find the majority of the documentation and download it from jukeboxwiz.com except for the I & O manual. This is kind of odd because the image used on the website for the LPC480 manuals is the cover page of the I & O manual. I did find a seller on eBay who had a facsimile of the manual at a reasonable price. Ron, I have your mech book on order but it won't be arriving in time to help me out with the move. Basically my plan, should I purchase the juke, will be to pull the mech and transport the rest of the unit on its back in my RAV4.

Since the unit is currently non operational, it will be a leap of faith that all components are working and it's just a matter of doing the troubleshooting to determine the cause of the blown fuse before proceeding with the restoration. As I said above, the unit was in working order up until recently.

Long and short is: does this seem like a reasonable price for this unit; without being able to power the unit on what should I look for; any other hints as far as the transportation goes in addition to packing the mech with newspaper, locking down any breakables and leaving the electronics in the cabinet? Also any pointers on moving this beast up or down stairs would be appreciated.

Finally, I just want to acknowledge the fact that for a first timer, this is notably the most complex mech to start out with, but why not jump in with both feet. As its been said before, this was a popular unit along with its predecessor, the LPC1, so parts should not be too hard to find.

Thanks in advance for any insight and advice offered. And a Happy Thanksgiving to our neighbours to the south.

Thom Smith

Hi Thom,
Thanks for buying the Mech Guide !
I would strongly suggest that you remove and transport the mech out of the cabinet--Do not pack in newspaper--ink shorts things out ! -see the "sticky" above this post--If that phono has blown the 15 amp fuse in the TCC, it's most likely a bad "latch bar solenoid", in the key board. If the owner installed a new fuse, without first fixing the problem, I can almost guarentee that you have fried wires from the keyboard to and sometimes through the pricing unit.
Ron Rich

Thanks for the reply, Ron.

Fortunately the seller was having trouble sourcing a replacement fuse so maybe I'll luck out on further possible damage. I will definitely look at the solenoid when I get it home.

My plan is to give it a good visual inspection once I get it in the shop and then pick up where he left off. He has done some work as above and cleaning as well. I'm of two minds when it comes to pre cleaned restoration. It's a time saver but it also erases any evidence of prior problems. I'm not a patina kind of guy, I like shiny things but mostly on the outside.

If I had the means of transporting upright I would but pulling the mech and shipping the cabinet on its back is really the only option I have. Thanks for the tip on newspaper. Any extra steps I should take to immobilize the mech once its out of the cabinet outside of securing any floppy bits? How far is too far when trying to lighten the cabinet? Would pulling the modules lighten the cabinet significantly?

Thanks again for getting back so quickly.

Thom Smith

Hi Thom,
You are fine just removing the mech--I just set them on my car seat, if I have no room in back--
as for lightening the cabinet--sure--remove whatever, and it will be lighter--
Ron Rich

Hi Thom! with the mechanism out, you've also got a fighting chance of getting up the stairs. i did it with an appliance dolly i rented for $10, and three guys - one pulling the dolly up as the other two supported the LPC/dolly and pushed up, one step at a time. i didn't have any turns to make, thankfully, considering the 40-inch width. i strapped it 'sideways' to the dolly.

i also pulled the TCC module beforehand, as it had old tubes and relays and such. maybe not much risk in the car, but rolling the dolly up the steps made 'bumps' to the unit which it probably hadn't seen in a while.

also - keep the mech in a horizontal position if you can. in my case i had set it down vertical (sideways) when i got home, and in the process ended up manually moving the player too far left, and i couldn't install the mech cuz the player would bump the cabinet in that extreme left position. i had to wire it up completely, in front of the TCC on the floor, and figure out how to use the album selector switch to move and reset the mech into the home position. then i had to disconnect it all again so i could slide it in from the back, like normal

i got it all back together and eventually got it to play my chosen selections, but most of the time it won't do what i ask! but i knew this going in, and at this early stage of the restoration, i'm glad it can play 45's at the right pitch. i've got work to do on the tormat and the amp, and the player. it's a little bit more of a project than i had in mind - and a bit intimidating! but i've been enjoying it. i'm a novice as a tech, but it looks like i can do this... with time.

the only expensive surprise that i've gotten is the cost of replacement styli. yes, there are lots of LPC's out for used parts, but nobody's making new styli that i know of, and the LPC uses TWO, and at least one of the two are shot on mine... probably both. a new old stock reproduction pair is roughly $140 i don't know much about tonearm geometry and cartridge impedances, though i'm considering trying a swap with another type someday.

cheers and good luck!

I do not understand--if you had enough room to remove the mech, why did you have problems re-installing it ?
Also, if you would read the above informational stickies, you would find that re-production stylii are now once again available--
Ron Rich

Thanks Ron and babycat for the responses.

I'm still hemming and hawing over the purchase. I went and had a look at the unit with a mind to picking it up at that point but there were a few issues that left me thinking.

The unit is currently DOA, as stated above. Apparently the unit was working fine up until the current owner undertook some work on the 'Auto Speed Unit'. He did some recapping and some mods provided by an ex service tech he found online, not you Ron. I think the name he gave was Steve but no last name. He got some updated schematics to help with some undisclosed issues, mostly grounding. My concern is that he might have gotten an electrolytic turned around or something might have gotten incorrectly grounded causing the unit to blow the main. He did show me inside the TASU and nothing looked blown or scorched. My worry is that since the TASU connects directly to the TCC that something in the TCC might have gotten zapped as well. Thoughts?

The mech was very clean and reportedly working well before the main fuse blew. Glass looks in good shape and the insides look clean as well. Some missing trim and damage to the cabinet veneer is some of the visible damage to the unit. Cosmetic, yes, but it is still going to factor into the restoration down the road.

I know that this is starting to sound like I am looking for advice on whether I should buy this or not, and it is, to a point. I realize that without being able to physically inspect the unit, I can't expect anyone here to make a judgement call like that. I'm just new at this and want to get a sense of the value of a well worn LPC480 and if I should be worried about the $250 CDN price tag, even with the 200+ 45s included with the deal.

Anyhow, thanks again for chiming in and lending me the advice. Ron, I got my copy of your mech guide yesterday and am looking forward to digging into it, on first flip through it looks like it's going to be quite the read.

Cheers,

Thom Smith

Thom, a few points;

Here is the speed unit for an SS160: http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... rt=2&o=127 It is essentially the same as yours. As you can see, the unit is only in the circuit and connected to the power line when the mech stops to play and finds a mounts a large-hole record (a 45).

If the main fuse blows with the unit scanning, stopped or any other mode than mounting a 45 the TSAU is very unlikely to be the cause.

Unplug ALL items from the junction box (with the main fuse) replace fuse then, add back units one at a time. If the control center blows the main fuse, remove all plugs from it and try again.Once the mech plug is removed you can use a 40-60 watt bulb in series with the main power cord to limit current and thus avoid wasting fuses. A 1-2 am ckt breaker would be even better.

The LPC was Seeburg's most complex machine of the E-m era. If you are not into a fair amount of rebuilding and troubleshooting, I suggest going for some other model.

Rob-NYC

Thom,
The main fuse on this model is a GMQ 6.25 amp (slo-blo "red cap")--very expensive to be blowing--get some 5 amp fast blows, and use them to trouble shoot as Rob suggested.. You will need to carefully remove the glass from the red cap, and gently insert the fuse ( with the power cord UN-plugged !) into the holder, then attach the red-cap, onto the fuse holder. Ron Rich

I was just thinking that it makes no sense to bother with that junction box when all the components have standard house plugs. So, just hack-up an extension cord with socket and, if wanted, a fuse:

http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... rt=2&o=178

This was one of three I built about 26 years ago. A bit dusty now but still useful. I suggest a 60 watt bulb for testing the LPC components (no mech motor connected) and about 25-40 watt for TSA/SHP amps alone.

Rob

Ron Rich wrote:I do not understand--if you had enough room to remove the mech, why did you have problems re-installing it ?
Also, if you would read the above informational stickies, you would find that re-production stylii are now once again available--
Ron Rich

hey Ron - sorry i missed your post!

while i was carrying the mech to my car i had to set it down. i made the mistake of setting it down on it's side. when i picked it up again, i felt the carriage move further towards the end - beyond it's usual resting position. sure enough, when i went to put it back in the console, the carriage was hitting the side panel and wouldn't go in! i didn't want to force it by hand, so luckily after hooking it up in front of the TCC on the floor, it reset itself into its normal position.


about replacement styli - perhaps i mis-spoke - i was under the impression that those T-needles from that online seller are old stock from an earlier repro run, because they are so expensive! that might be good news if they are actually still in production - perhaps the price could come down. $140 is getting close to what i paid for the whole LPC!

Why don't you axk the "online seller", or try another one (listed above) who clearly states that he is selling ONLY, current production needles ?
Ron Rich

Thanks Rob-NYC for the tips. I am quickly coming to understand the reputation of the LPC 480 has as a complex machine. Perhaps that might have something to do with the sellers desire to off load the unit. My hope is that if the unit was working well before the main fuse blew that I'd be able to use the troubleshooting technique you outlined to isolate and repair the problem. I've seen the light bulb used before in a video on an STD3 amplifier, http://youtu.be/kWLE8lAYmPc.

Ron, is there a reason why I couldn't replace the whole distribution block with a more practically fused one? Since I'm not looking at doing a 100% factory restoration I just think it might be a more convenient mod and less expensive in the long run. Not that I have a problem with modding the red cap as well but I'd just as soon have a more permanent solution.

Thom Smith

Thom, all that is necessary is to carefully cut away the glass of an existing fuse as shown here:

http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... rt=2&o=179

This is how I have operated these machines for thirty years. You can easily enough drill out the hole where the GMQ holder mounts to take a typical chassis type, but it really isn't worth the trouble.


Rob

Hi Thom,
Sure--you can replace that "special" fuse holder with a "standard size" one, but it's so much less work to remove the glass portion from the CORRECT size (ONLY!!!!) "Red cap" -- Ron Rich