Rock-ola 452 Small Hole Issues (with video!)

Hello,

First post here. I've been using my Rock-ola 452 successfully for several years, but I've built up enough modern band 7" 45 RPM records that I'd like to be able to run both.

I read through this thread talking about the platter mechanism:
http://www.phonoland.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4753

However, in this video, I've displayed a strange issue I have:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB1nIjZsBfg

The jukebox now drops the platters red "sensor?" no matter what. I'll work on the 33-1/3rd RPM vs 45RPM issue once I figure out how to make it not do that.

In the first half of the video, I select a large diameter 7" and it plays at 33rpm now and is not secured by the clips. In the second half, I select a small diameter 7" and it plays at 33rpm, but is properly secured.

Any advice would be helpful. I have the service manual, but it doesn't seem to discuss this mechanism in any detail.

Thank you,

Looking at your video, it almost looks like the large hole record is off center (towards the basket side) when the gripper lands it onto the turntable. It might be nipping a red sensor in the process causing your issue. Just a wild guess.

I agree with the first reply--your turntable is not correctly aligned, causing the record to touch the red plastic.
Check this by playing an empty slot--if the 45 "pegs" stay up, you have proven it--
Ron Rich

@Ron Rich and @Rockola4Ever, thank you for your replies.

I've posted a video where I play an empty slot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QX-YU972BI

The pegs pop down no matter what at this point, so I'm not sure what changed, so I made a video with the platter off:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLVZ1ytRgsw

Also, @DoghouseRiley, thank you for the advice! I have enough to fill up the entire carousel, so I'm looking forward to solving that as well.

Thanks everyone!

Hi Chris,
It appears that there is no lubrication anywhere under that TT--That "slide" should be mechanically held by some sort of a detent pawl---don't have one here to look at, and really do not recall how it works, but usually see some graphite grease "smeared" around the slide area --Also see that at least one motor grommet is shot. (other two should be replaced at the same time)(this will have no bearing on your current problem).
Ron Rich

At first I thought this topic was about a 425. Then, after seeing the video realised it's a 452 - can a moderator correct this to save confusion in future searches?

When you lift the turntable off do the red pin just drop through? They should be held-up with a spring and should require a little pressure to make them drop.

Did you purchase this jukebox full of 33-1/3 rpm records? Have you ever had a 45 rpm record work in it? I ask because it would seem that a previous owner may have purposely set it to play only 33-1/3 records.

...and Ron is right, the plate under the turntable is scarily clean.

Ron Rich wrote:Hi Chris,
It appears that there is no lubrication anywhere under that TT--That "slide" should be mechanically held by some sort of a detent pawl---don't have one here to look at, and really do not recall how it works, but usually see some graphite grease "smeared" around the slide area --Also see that at least one motor grommet is shot. (other two should be replaced at the same time)(this will have no bearing on your current problem).
Ron Rich

No problem, I could easily take care of those maintenance issues. Any advice on the current problem would be appreciated.

Las Vegas Jukebox wrote:At first I thought this topic was about a 425. Then, after seeing the video realised it's a 452 - can a moderator correct this to save confusion in future searches?

When you lift the turntable off do the red pin just drop through? They should be held-up with a spring and should require a little pressure to make them drop.

Did you purchase this jukebox full of 33-1/3 rpm records? Have you ever had a 45 rpm record work in it? I ask because it would seem that a previous owner may have purposely set it to play only 33-1/3 records.

...and Ron is right, the plate under the turntable is scarily clean.

Hey, thank you! Sorry, I have amended the subject title to reflect my error.

When I lift the turntable off, both the red pins and the metal pins circumferencing it drop. It does take a bit of pressure to push down.

I traded studio time for this jukebox and it was given to me empty. I used it for over two years with normal 45 RPM 7" records until I tried to play a small-hole 7" and pulled the turntable off to inspect it's operation. Not sure what I changed or possibly damaged, but now the pins drop down no matter what and it plays at 33 RPM regardless.

Okay, no tampering by a previous owner - that's good.

What doesn't make sense is that the red and silver pins need pressure to drop when you have the turntable off, but they drop without pressure when the turntable is in place. There is nothing under the turntable to "pull" those pins down. There's only the "Sensor Lever Riveting Assembly" which keeps the pins "up" when a large hole record is played. The "Sensor Lever Riveting Assembly" is the part you need to remove for permanent 45-rpm play, by removing the E-clip and "Sensor Lever Spring". However, before you do that you need to fix your problem. The only thing I can think of is that perhaps the "Lifter Bracket Riveting Assembly" is somehow dragging the pins down as it drops, but I think highly unlikely. Sorry I can't be more help.

Chris, sorry I couldn't be of any help. Looks to be the same mech as my 425. I have a small hole 33 in the basket that I play just to keep that part alive. Never had a problem so never messed with it. Hey Rich I tried to PM you. Never done that. Did it work?

Las Vegas Jukebox wrote:Okay, no tampering by a previous owner - that's good.

What doesn't make sense is that the red and silver pins need pressure to drop when you have the turntable off, but they drop without pressure when the turntable is in place. There is nothing under the turntable to "pull" those pins down. There's only the "Sensor Lever Riveting Assembly" which keeps the pins "up" when a large hole record is played. The "Sensor Lever Riveting Assembly" is the part you need to remove for permanent 45-rpm play, by removing the E-clip and "Sensor Lever Spring". However, before you do that you need to fix your problem. The only thing I can think of is that perhaps the "Lifter Bracket Riveting Assembly" is somehow dragging the pins down as it drops, but I think highly unlikely. Sorry I can't be more help.

I think with your post I understand what is going on now. I am pretty certain that the turn table unit is missing three bearings that go into the silver pins that allow it to stick up and down. So, if this is true, how do I figure out what bearings of matching size I should find? I've attached a photo of my unit. I'm going to estimate that they must have been 1/8" bearings.

http://www.jooniorstudios.com/images/bearings.jpg

Yes, unfortunately the bearings are not listed as separate items in the parts catalog. I don't have a 452 model, but I'm sure that all the Rock-Ola models with this type of turntable will use the same bearings. That said, I don't have a calliper tool to measure the bearing accurately. Hopefully someone else on this site will be able to give you the exact measurements for the bearings. Failing that, you could purchase a complete replacement turntable from eBay, or one of the parts suppliers listed at the top of this forum.

Las Vegas Jukebox wrote:Yes, unfortunately the bearings are not listed as separate items in the parts catalog. I don't have a 452 model, but I'm sure that all the Rock-Ola models with this type of turntable will use the same bearings. That said, I don't have a calliper tool to measure the bearing accurately. Hopefully someone else on this site will be able to give you the exact measurements for the bearings. Failing that, you could purchase a complete replacement turntable from eBay, or one of the parts suppliers listed at the top of this forum.

Thanks, I'm going to try and pick up some bearing balls locally later today. Failing that, my service manual has no detailed parts diagrams or parts lists of the turntable assembly. Is that common? There are several turntable options on ebay that look good too, as a last resort.