help me inspect this Seeburg LPC1 candidate for purchase, please.

hey gang - my first post, though i've snooped here before. the new forum format looks great!

i've taken a shine to a LPC1 for listed for sale, a couple of hours from here. after a phone conversation with the seller (tonight or tomorrow), i will probably head out to check it out this week. it's also possible i might make a bid on it unseen, as it is listed through an auction site and the price is affordable.

the description says it has been 'reconditioned' after being rescued from a barn (what is it about jukes and barns?)...
it is described as working well.

i would like to hear from y'all about what to look and listen for while i'm checking it out. potential problem areas, hard to find parts, etc.

also - what's the deal with replacement styli? i've read about how some of these are uber rare
i would be open to non-original replacements or even a simple mod.

i have experience maintaining my own vintage guitar amps, so i could possibly do any necessary work. i am generally good with mechanisms, but have no experience with jukes.

i'm looking forward to digging into a hard copy service manual and guide book as suggested in the Newbie thread. but i appreciate your advice in the meantime, as i don't think i can obtain them in time. auction ends tuesday!

cheers, all!

Well, you've picked what is the most complex Seeburgs of the electro-mechanical era to start off with.

-Slide out the electronic units and look for replaced capacitors and resistors. This is a 50+ year old machine and if this work has not been thoroughly done, it is on borrowed time.

- If possible, have the seller leave the machine on, but not playing, for several hours before you arrive. This will allow you to feel the heatsink on the amplifier for hot idling. These are old, germanium based amps and the output transistors do become leaky with age and use.

-Check for balanced sound between channels. Try to place the balance control in center for this test and don't be surprised if you hear an imbalance -especially if the amp had not been rebuilt.

-Make selections on both side of records and select A&B sides of the same disk so as to see if the machine properly plays them consecutively.

-Check for "bucking" when the machine goes into scan from play mode. the combination of a stupidly heavy mech cover and one-direction tripping do seem to put an added strain on the clutch member.

I've had both a hideaway and floor model LPC in commercial service, they have been reliable. But as i said earlier, they are complex and problems can manifest themselves a bit differently than on the simpler models.

This site has some good pic's of the LPC and components: http://www.retroaudiolab.com/seeburgphoto.htm Scroll down.

A service manual is a must.

Rob-NYC

To add to Rob's advise--
I would first determine if the mechanism was a "Code A" or "B"--this is easy to determine-just look at the "Record now playing" lamp cover--if it is held in place with "nuts", it's a code A. Code B's snap off. Next, I would look at the reversing relay--check that the fiber actuator was firmly attached to the metal armature. I would then check the latch bar solenoid in the "keyboard". IT MUST not be dark brown, AND there MUST be a lead shield held in place next to it with two clips. I would then remove and open the APU-1--checking all parts are there, the subtract arm is not worn to the point it's going split, at any second, and that the "k" contacts still have gold left on the contact plate, and the insulator is not burned.
Needles today are no problem --a little on the "pricey" side--but all things considered, well worth it.
As for the "bucking" situation, I dis-agree with Rob. The code A mech cover is the same weight as was used on the previous three models ! The later style cover is slightly lighter then previous models. ALL Seeburg mechanisms from the original B on thru the SMC can suffer worn clutches, and will "buck" if so worn. The usual cause of this is improper lubrication, or lack thereof, IMHO. To check the clutch on a LPC model requires removing the rear cabinet panel, running the mech down the the "U-8" end, and examining the "V" notches ( all 4) to be sure they are not "grooved". Changing the clutch member is NBD--- I' splain how I do it in my "Seeburg Mechanism Guide".
Ron Rich

this is great guys - thanks! plenty to go on here.

i might normally be happy with a simpler design, but this is one of only two boxes that i've seen that fit the decor (and dimensions) of our living room, and gets an enthusiastic thumbs up from my fiancee. the other was a AMI/Rowe Diplomat - i was excited for that one and it seemed fairly simple and reliable, alas i was putting a trade deal together for it when someone else swooped in with way more cash and bought it outright

this LPC is totally in my price range, though perhaps there's a trade-off with it being more complex to diagnose, as Rob had mentioned.

i'm thinking that if i discover any of the anomalies mentioned, that i could use them to negotiate a better price, or at least understand what kind of work i'm in for.


BUT are any of these issues actually a reason to reject the machine as a candidate, assuming the thing is working and behaving well?

Ron: is the Code A mechanism to be completely avoided? was that part of the recall i read about on another thread? that might be my first question to the seller over the phone before i drive out to see it.

and the latch bar solenoid, do you mean dark brown as if it's been kind of 'cooked'?
would that be a deal breaker, or just more work for me down the road?

hopefully i'll get a chance to snoop at all of these things.

oh - anybody care to give a ballpark 'value' for a well working LPC-1?
i'm sure it's highly variable... i'm fairly happy with the asking price, but will want to offer less if there's clearly work ahead. but it would be good to know if i'm being reasonable with my offer.

thanks again, guys - cheers!

No real problem on code A mechs--resistor should be changed and record now playing lamp replaced for longer lasting lamp ( original was a #12, new is a #19) (Much less of--no,---- no longer a PIA to change the lamp on a code B mech)
Well,brown is not good, however, they originally were a shade of "light" brown-- Be suspicious if phono is set for "free play". Almost always indicates need for replacing the solenoid--as it is NOT designed for constant duty !! Ron Rich

roger that, and thanks! well it sounds like there's not much to be afraid of. i just want to avoid lugging a potential boat anchor up to my second floor apartment!

speaking of, i've been reading your notes on "moving" a juke...

i would take out the player mechanism as well as all of the modules that slide out. and of course lock down the glass...

at this point i would have to transport the console on it's back in my wagon for 160 highway miles. any other hazards to this?

cheers!

You can leave the modules in the bottom, in this model, as long as they are locked down. Ron Rich

at this point i would have to transport the console on it's back in my wagon for 160 highway miles. any other hazards to this?

One addition to whatever traveling prep is to place a towel or newspapers between the mech and magazine. The idea is to prevent any oil or other 'crud" from fouling the record slots.

Regardless of whether, or how, this machine is transported you should be prepared to have problems after you start using it if it has not been thoroughly rebuilt. There really isn't anything "fatal" that can occur other than a cracked mech casting (which I've never seen) but understand that this machine is 50+ years old and probably neglected for most of that period. The LPC was extremely popular and used parts are available.

Good luck with your acquisition.

Rob

thanks guys - each little tidbit of advice is helping me prepare!

indeed i have it in mind that i've got some tinkering and learning ahead of me.

but! apparently this one has gotten a lot of attention in recent times. i spoke with the owner on the phone (he's 2.5 hours away). it was a really good chat - turns out he's very much into old gear and keeping it alive. i asked him if he could see my phone number on his phone for future reference, and he told me not at all - his phone is a Western Electric model 300! i have two old rotary phones at my place, too. on the other hand he doesn't use the internet...

basically he got a hold of two or three of these and raided parts from the others to get this one going. indeed he said the selector buttons had not been latching... and he found a good condition solenoid (had to order one) and got them latching again. he also 'restored' it to coin operation. he said he recapped the speed unit. he even tuned it to run 45's at a steady, correct pitch relative to the same song on a CD. but there might be something odd there - i asked him if he ran any of the 33 1/3 records, and he said he 'wired it' for 45, and taped off a wire for 33. perhaps he bypassed the auto speed detector somehow. he wasn't quite sure, as he has never had a mini LP to try to play. not a deal breaker, though i'd like to be able to run some mini LP's in the future.

he said the amp runs quiet and sounds 'good enough, like in a saloon' - he hadn't inspected the amp, so i expect to do a cap job on that much.

it's a looker by the photos, and what he says. just some light scratches on the sides. he said he spent a lot of time finally finding the correct light bulbs. indeed the lighting looks great.

sounds like a worthy project, that might not be too much of a project. according to the dimension specs i've seen, this is actually gonna *just* fit in my wagon, on it's back. i'd rent a van, but we're talking 350 miles and it still might not fit upright anyway.

headed out now to go check it out and hopefully bring it back... wish me luck!