HMV 1A ?

Dear friends,
I could aquire an early autochange HMV, I think, it

I saw that machine up for auction recently! At least, I think it's the same machine. If it is, I think you got a real bargain! It's actually NOT the auto 1, but is an auto-changer in a 202 re-entrant style case. I think it had a few HMV collectors scratching their heads. I don't think anyone has seen this model before, or even knew it existed. I wonder if it was some sort of prototype made before the Auto 1 was released. A proper Auto is wider than this machine, and does not have the cross members between the legs. It also does not have doors which cover the speaker, and the record bin was on the opposite side to yours.I think the whole changer mechanism is different to the A1 as well. My guestimate of the number of A1's made is about 100, but this model- who knows? It may be the only one left or even made!
Most of the later re-entrants carried a circular disc, (usually found under the used needle cup) which included the model number & serial number. Does this machine have anything like that? It certainly doesn't look like a home made changer, but if it is a prototype, it probably won't have that form of identification.
Hopefully a fellow named Steve, who visits this forum will spot it. I haven't seen him around for a couple weeks, so he might be away on holiday's. I might send him an email to tell him about it. We were wondering if we'd see it again He's pretty clued up on all things HMV, though when he saw this one, he hadn't seen this model before either. He keeps in contact with england's resident HMV expert, Christopher Proudfood, so he may have found out about this changer since I last spoke to him, or he may be able to find something out from Christopher??

Congratulations on picking up such a beautiful & rare machine!! Your machine is probably the only one I'd even consider getting rid of my 202 to obtain. I'm sure there will be quite a few questions about your change in the near future

Dear Shane,
I think it

Hi John46 and Shane!

Thanks for the positive feedback first of all! I wouldn't exactly call myself an expert though - the one thing I've learnt about gramophones in the past few years is that there is always something new to learn everyday and knowledge is continually being updated. At times, i feel like a complete beginner again, even after 16 years!

Anyway as Shane hinted above, I do have contact with Christopher Proudfoot from time to time and I asked him for his expert opinion on this and he replied as follows:

"It's a Model 10 Automatic. If it's the one in the Bonham's sale, I was the underbidder - not on my own behalf, though, as I have no room for it. It was short-lived, December 1929 - October 1930, and only 31 were sold. It is better-known in the all-electric version, Model 12. I have never seen inside one, but I suspect the horn is not a re-entrant, but straight out of a 157"

HTH

STEVE

Postscript - I should also perhaps point out that any sales figures quoted above or which have been kindly provided to me by Christopher and discussed elsewhere are for the UK market only. There are no sales figures available at this time for any exported machines.

Thanks for the research. I opened the graophone again and looked inside with a mirror. I still think, it

The best way to tell, would be by removing the grille, and seeing if the horn is divided into 4 sections like my 202 horn below.

the only way to remove the grille, is from inside, to remove the whole mechanic part and to reinstall and readjust it afterwards. I will never do that without a serious urge!!!

Checking @ google"HMV 10 Automatic" I found an auction Christie´s London 1990
Lot96: A rare HMV Model 10 automatic gramophone with 5a soundbox, re-entrant tone chamber and electric motor.......
Members of Artfact. com could possibly even find out , for how much it was sold.
Regards John46

Hi John,
Being a 1990 auction, it probably wouldn't be a very accurate indication of value. At that time, a 202 was selling for upto 14000 pounds in the UK, but now they've come down to the more realist price of around 7000 pounds. Of course yours is a much rarer model, so you wouldn't have machines flooding the market to drive the price down. In all honesty, I was shocked at the price you got yours for, and expected it to go for at least 4 times that price. Still, it would be very intersting to find out what the 1990 one went for.

Shane, a couple of points to note here: the 202 was not fetching £14000 in 1990. It wasn't until 1993-ish that the then world record price was set at £10,350 for a good example at Sothebys (London). I attended the sale and couldn't understand what all the fuss was about - I was in my "portable phase" and happily oblivious to the goings on with the deep-pocketed foreign buyers!

Subsequent 202's raised the bar even further with many examples fetching £10,000 in regional UK salerooms. Christies eventually sold a very nice example for about £15,000 in 1995 (including premiums etc). By 1997 the price of an average 202 in the Uk in an obscure cattle auction had fallen to £3,500! Mind you in every case the buyer was a dealer who would have his / her Asian buyer eagerly awaiting in the wings to pay £7,000 plus.

To the best of my knowledge that price still stands today. The last genuine 202 was bought by me from an ad on here. A lot of silliness prevailed regarding the "right" and "wrong" price to pay for one today. As I said then and I stand by it now, where are all the 202's owned by UK collectors who've "only" paid a couple of thousand pounds for one? Hello, hello, anyone out there? Yeah, thought as much!....

The Model 10 in 1990 sold at Christies for £1650 (including taxes), about what I'd still expect one to make today. They never went through the "sky rocket" stage so consequently they haven't plummeted either.

HTH

Steve