Seeburg cartridge identification

I have an original Seeburg stereo cartridge with the yellow needles. I believe it came from a 1970-71 Seeburg Bandshell. It has the words Seeburg Stereo and a Pickering logo on the label. It has the following number printer in silver on the cartridge: 253781.
Is this the stereo version of the 340-03D that replaced the Seeburg redhead? Would this cartridge/ needle combination with a mono adapter work on the Seeburg 100's?
Thanks.

Have you seen here?

http://www.needles4jukeboxes.com/Seeburg-Cartridges.htm

Gents,
Seeburg purchased only Pickering cartridges from 1949 on. The Seeburg part number for the later carts changed with the type of needles installed, so there are several different cart numbers for the same thing. The 345 cart is the mono one, which was developed solely by Pickering ( Seeburg was closed by then !)--and yes-the 345 is a later version of the 340 stereo carts, and the adaptor will work, if properly installed, and weighted--but NOT correctly, if you do not have green or brown needles ! The needle COLOR varied, and was a note of a specific difference--despite what anyone else writes ! I 'splain this very carefully, in my Seeburg Mechanism Guide-- Ron Rich

Steve, the ability to use that cart, which is superior, requires either an adapter that adds weight to balance the lighter weight or a new arm and cut down counterweight. If this is for a tormat machine an entire assembly may be subbed -if- it will fit under the cover.

http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... b.jpg.html

On pre-Tormat machines the magnetic reed sw can not handle the trip coil current, so a small relay must be added inside the mech cover.

Another consideration is the output from the cart is appreciably lower than a mono redhead with spike styli. On the V-VL machines and some 201's I built a 12AX7 preamp to replace the existing one. One some later rebuilt 201's and 222's I simply bypassed the existing preamp with a new outboard unit.

Rob

Thanks to all for your input.
Rob,
I can confirm that a mono redhead with the spike styli has a higher output than either the stereo/mono combination or a mono redhead with the original 'dogleg' styli. If only mono records are played is there any disadvantage to using a redhead with the 1 mil spike styli vs. the 0.7 mil dogleg?

Steve,
Playing a mono record with a "1 mil" needle is exactly what that cartridge was designed to do--I have had no problems playing mono, records, using a 345-0S1, or, D1, Pickering ( as long as the cart is PROPERLY balanced and adjusted, pressure wise--IMHO,springs originally used on the blackhead cart. will not work on a 340, or,345-type cartridge ! ) Ron Rich

Ron, Steve, I have two Seeburg 200's out using the original springs and the retrofit cart. By carefully stretching the springs both track at approx 3 gm and I have always used the yellow styli w/no problems.

Here is an assembly that was removed due filth and a cracked terminal strip:
http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... rt=2&o=169

This 201 has run with stretched springs @ 3gm since May 1992:
http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... rt=2&o=147

A closeup of the crudely stretched springs:
http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... ort=2&o=61 Normally I stretch them using the eyelets at the ends of the spring to give a uniform weakening. I messed up here -but it worked so.....

Alternately, the later SS-160-up types of spring can be used, Victory Glass may still stock them. You will need to close the hooks on the assembly frame and slightly stretch them. These are what I use on the remaining 200's such as this K:
http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... sort=2&o=2

For home use I suggest just careful stretching of the existing springs.

Rob

Hi Rob,
I totally dis-agree on spring stretching---and you have miss read, what I wrote--the springs on a 200 select machine, are NOT the same as used on early 100 B, C, G/W models that were equipped with the "blackhead" ! The (longer) springs used for the redhead are usually adjustable by flipping the tone arm mounted "adjuster" over and using the hole on the (now) bottom. The spring supports, can be, if necessary, can be "reformed" slightly, to achieve the correct needle pressure, for the type of needles used. Ron Rich

Ron, I did not miss your reference to the "blackhead". But Steve has (IIRC) an R and those arms, cart and springs are the same as the 200's.

FWIW: I stretched the springs because flipping the eyelet on the tonearm and bending up the hook on the frame still could not get lower than 4-5 gm. These machines were going into revenue service and I can't run them like that with the yellow styli and (often) styrene records.

Rob

Hi Rob,
That being the case, I would bet someone removed the "redhead springs", on that phono, and replaced them with "blackhead springs"
?? I would guess that I have changed well over 100 of them, and always used the later redhead springs with no problem--can get them down to 2 grams in most cases, however never set them lower then 4 grams, for commercial use, with (gen-u-whine) green, or brown needles. Ron Rich

Rob,
I found one of your posts in the archives concerning the 340 stereo cartridge resistance when paired with a mono adapter. IIRC there were three possible configurations that produced different cartridge resistance according to how the stereo channels were connected; either single channel, series or parallel. The amount of 'noise' and distortion was proportional to the configuration and resulting resistance. I measured 425 ohms with the stereo/mono combination. Is there any way to modify the mono adapter in order change the configuration and to lower the resistance?
A couple of other comments:
-the stylus height with the adapter is exactly the same as a redhead.
-the hum that is present while playing a record with the redhead cartridge is much, much less with the 340 combo.
-output with the combo was about the same as with the redhead, but that may be due to several factors.
-the tone arm and counterweight were not modified for the 340 combo comparison.
-comparisons were made on a Seeburg R.

Steve, 460 (approx) is correct for each channel of the cart used in SS-160-up. Thus it appears that only one channel is hooked up in your adapter. This will expose surface noise and distortion due to no cancellation -the same as would happen in a stereo machine. Unless you can open the adapter there isn't much that can be done here. The cart is wired as you see here:
http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... sort=2&o=3

With white-black as one channel and red-green as the other. I'd suggest running tiny wires across the pins on the cart, but there isn't enough room.

-the hum that is present while playing a record with the redhead cartridge is much, much less with the 340 combo.

There should not be -any- hum w/either cart. Check two items:

1) Is the shield of the pickup cable electronically connected to the mech at any point. It should be floating and not touch any ground till it enters the amp chassis.

2) Use a meter to determine if the pickup cable shield is connected to the shell of the pickup (the adapter one). If the center of the coax is connected to the shell I suggest reversing the two wires that come from the tonearm. Another test for this is to touch the pickup shell during play mode and see if hum results. Often, these two wires get reversed if repair has been made.

-the tone arm and counterweight were not modified for the 340 combo comparison

When the tonearm sets down in a slot w/no record, does it bias inward? Then with power off and no record, place the tonearm at the trip point and release it. Is should not show any strong bias outward once the trip sw whisker is snapped and thus off the tonearm.

If bias is noted it will cause increased record wear and possible distortion. You can add some washers to the top of the pickup head to better balance it if you don't want to deal with cutting the counterweights.

Rob