Seeburg 100 C - Pin bank cancel problem

Hello,

I have a 100C jukebox I just took from my dad. Records play fine and the thing is generally in pretty good condition. I am however having a problem with the pinbank cancel. The top row of records select and cancel perfectly fine. The bottom row also selects fine, however right after the selector loads the record, the pin does not cancel. When looking at the pin bank (see below photo), I can see the little thing in the middle pop out as it should when a record is selected from the top row, but when a record is selected from the bottom row that thing does not move or "pop" as it should. The only way I am able to get the record selector to move on from a bottom row record is to kill the power a couple seconds after I hit the reject button on the back, then as the power shuts down the selector beings to move and I can turn the machine back on.

I have cleaned all the contacts with a pipe cleaner and contact cleaner. Would appreciate any insight.

Not sure why image didn't work, but here is a link to it:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/K ... directlink

Hi: the 1st question would be "do you have a manual"? cancel problems are related to the S/Sc contacts on the vertical switch stack. the reverse switch, the contact block not aligned, sticking cancel solenoid pin, burned out cancel solenoid. been there done all of that
If you just got this and you are going to keep and love it. you will need the manual from a reputable source(see the section), a burnishing tool, De-ox it and 20 wt non detergent oil. It would also be an excellent idea to rebuild the amp and selection receiver with a recap kit. Mark

Well,
What can I say--this is the absolute classic problem caused by moving the phono on it's back, without PROPERLY securing it !
L@@k at your photo--the brown/black "contact block" (aka "frog") should be encased inside the "U shaped holder", and the spring inside the holder must still have enough tension to push the frog against the other side of the holder. You have a chance to save it if you CAREFULLY, move the spring back against the metal, and CAREFULLY, insert the frog into proper position. You MAY need to remove the SA Unit, and reform (BEND) either one or both of the support arms VERY CAREFULLY, and slowly, if it no longer meets the above specs. If you are not "slow/careful", you will snap an arm, or two !!
Lotza Luck !! Ron Rich

Ron,

Thank you for your reply. I've read a lot of your posts here and know you are the guy to talk to. Apologies for my ignorance as I'm new to working on these types of machines.

The jukebox was recently moved however was kept upright and secure throughout the move. However, clearly the issue occurred somehow so working to resolve it now.

Okay, so I took it apart (see below photos). I guess the "frog" you're referring to is the tight coil? The spring was stuck in the hole on the machine so I didn't want to try to remove it. I did however make sure that the tight coil is inserted properly into the spring and screwed the unit back in. Still having the same problem. Maybe I'm not understanding your complete instructions. I don't see the support arms you refer to in your previous comment? Can you clarify using the attached pictures so I can be sure I'm doing what you instruct?

Also, just for my curiosity, why would the unit function correctly for the top row of records, but not for the bottom row? Seems to me that if the spring (or frog) is malfunctioning, it should do it for both the odd and even rows of records.

Thanks again,

Eric

Eric,
If held upright, that can NOT happen unless you bounced it down the stairs--??
You are looking at the coil--look at the black/brown "PLASTIC'", that retains both coils--In your first photo, you can see how "high" it is above the U shaped metal holder, with the spring (steel) on the left--it's "riding on" not " in" -----the metal "U" holder must be the same height on both sides of the frog-- Ron Rich

THANK YOU! Now I see why you are the master, Ron. Just as you said, the U shaped holder was off center. The little metal clip on the left side was bent around the inside tab. I just had to manipulate it with my hand to straighten the U out and the selector now moves gracefully to the next record no matter what row it is on. This is a huge relief and I'm siked.

Now the secondary question. So this thing has been sitting in my dad's basement for the past 25 years. Throughout my whole childhood the canceler never really worked. The jukebox would just rotate through the records that had been already selected but there was never a way to reliably cancel a selected record (it usually would be selected the next time around, even if not selected on the keys).

So now that I've been looking in the back, it does seem to usually cancel the top row of records. If you look at the attached picture, the little metal pin with a hole in it (circled in red) pops out when each record is selected on the top row. This is how I know the pin is put back to the center, thus canceling the selection for the next round. However, on the bottom row, this pin (circled in red) does not "pop" and none of the records are cancelled, meaning it will hit that same record again the next time the selector passes by that point. I hope I'm making sense with this ramble.

Any idea how to fix this issue so that the pin (circled in red) "pops" and thus cancels the selection each on the bottom row (as it currently does on the top row)?

Thanks!

Not quite sure I understand this--is the plunger on that coil "stuck", or is it failing to get power, or is it not aligned correctly--got the service manual ?? Ron Rich

The plunger (small piece with a hole at the end circled in red in my previous photo) does not move when a record is selected from the bottom row. It works as it should when a record is selected from the top row. Don't think it's stuck since it works sometimes, maybe a power or contact issue?

OK--that coil/plunger is for one row of selections--there is a second identical one of those coils on the other side, for the other "row" of selections-- If you hear the pop meter actuate on both sides, either the contact in the reversing switch is faulity, or the plunger is stuck into that coil, or, the coil is open. SEE the service manual !!
Ron Rich

Got it. Didn't realize there was one on the other side. I got back there and maneuvered it a little with my hand and put a little contact cleaner on the end of the plunger. Not sure exactly what, I did but it's working now. Canceling selections as it should. This thing is now working better than it ever did when I had it in my basement growing up. Thanks for all your help. I am a happy camper tonight.