HMV 203, buy it or not ?

I always think if you have to ask yourself the question "Do I want this or not?", the answer is probably going to be / should be NO! If you have to ask OTHERS that very simple question then the answer is a bit more complicated - for instance, why would you need someone else to tell you what you do or don't want? Or is it just a question of fishing for up-to-date price info'? Tricky! I don't have to tell you I'm sure that the 203 is the ultimate HMV cabinet machine from the acoustic era? It is also extremely rare and shares the same horn as the 202, a machine which notoriously rocketted up in price 10 years ago setting world records at auction. You have correctly identified the faults of this machine which might make this example unpalatable to those deep-pocketed Asian buyers so you already know and accept that it's not going to be a 10,000 Euro machine? It is equally priceless and worthless. Decide if YOU want it (and why wouldn't you?) and then stick to YOUR decision. If it was professionally resprayed (not repolished) and the grille cloth was re-re-placed with a close matching material to the original, you would have an extremely rare and very desirable piece which should give you many years of pleasure - just don't expect the discerning collectors (with serious money to spend) around the world to fall at its feet though, it will always be a compromise.

Hi sentjourn and steve666,
Thanks for your answers ! I really like the gramophone and I know that it

Let's put it this way - it comes down to where you are in the world and the skills of cabinet finishes in your locality, not to mention how much they charge! I could get the job done for 500 Euros where I am but that doesn't mean you would have to pay that. If you don't buy, please let me know where it is and I most certainly will...........

I guess if that were in my neighborhood, I'd sell the kitchen sink to get it. (Actually, that is not too bad a proposition, since my kitchen sink, along with every other appliance in my apartment belongs to my landlord. )

I actually had an opportunity to buy one of the large HMV Re-Entrant models back when I lived in Maryland. I don't know which model it was, but I do remember that it came with a #5 (as opposed to a #5a) sound box, the cabinet was dark oak, the original grille cloth was spotless, and the "innards" were either nickel or chrome plated--I'm not that familiar with these machines to know what plating was used. All in all, it looked to be in perfect condition, but unfortunately, the shop owner had a vinyl LP on the turntable, "for display purposes," so I did not get a chance to hear it. (He claimed it worked perfectly, which in the language of "antiques" shop owners means, "the turntable still spins.")

The asking price was $200. I thought of buying it, but unfortunately, plans for a relocation to the West Coast were well under way, and I didn't the resources to ship it. (We were moving on a very tight budget, and I had to sell off all of the cabinet and table model Victrolas, as well as all our furniture, prior to the move.)

That was 20 years ago, and I've yet to see another HMV Re-Entrant model for sale--at any price--since.

Yes, indeed, the kitchen sink is completely superfluous when you have a 203 in the house to play records on!

I guess the original message was left to question whether the machine was "worth" the asking price?

The term "Hen's teeth" springs to mind where 203's are concerned - the machine can be brought back to a nice finish with sympathetically applied new grille cloth etc so anyone wanting one of these would be reckless not to snap it up should they get the chance to buy it. 1300 E is a STEAL of a price. I doubt anyone in Japan will want this one (I could be wrong though!) but then again, if it was an excellent original condition machine it could very well be 10,000 E!!!!!!!

An excellent 194 has just sold for 5500 E.

Incidentally, Joe_DS, the machine you probably saw was a 163 as the bigger models have very distinctive plating to the internal fitments - 194 and 203 are completely gold-plated with 193 and 202 (oak cabinets) having oxidised silver plated fittings. You cannot mistake the latter for nickle or chrome as there is a very striking blue colour with a striped effect across the tone-arm etc where they originally applied an oxidising agent to the bright silver with an air-brush to create an "antique" appearance.

If you send me your email address I'll forward some pictures of the inside of the 202 for you to see what I'm referring to.

Hi, this sounds like the kind of oppprtunity that if missed will always be regretted. There is a fashion that says that any machine which is not as it left the factory is of lesser interest & in some way less desireable, I have long held a different view. A machine such as this is pushing 80 years old & has a history, the "imperfections" are just honorable scars standing testiment to the fact that this great machine was obsolete almost before it left the drawing board, was used, enjoyed, & very likely spent at least 30 years reguarded as an ugly monster! Honest repairs acceptably well executed are as much part of this history as the work done in the factory. That said there is no harm in redoing shoddy restoration, which gives the chance to add ones own mark to this history & perhaps even more importantly with a room dominating item like this to have it looking great. Leave the few examples untouched by time to those with deep pockets & enjoy superb musical reproduction with a little social history thrown in! Only my opinion of course but when I see lemmings running I tend not to follow. Sam

STEVE wrote:Incidentally, Joe_DS, the machine you probably saw was a 163 as the bigger models have very distinctive plating to the internal fitments......If you send me your email address I'll forward some pictures of the inside of the 202 for you to see what I'm referring to.

Hi Steve:

Thanks for the offer to send photos. Unfortunately, right now we are using an inexpensive, albeit, VERY SLOW dial up service, and most photos cause our email program to "time out" as well as freeze up. (We hope to get onto a high speed service later this year.)

We have also temporarily disabled the program's ability to receive most types of attached files, including *.zip files, because of constant waves of virus related spam. At this time, the only type of file we can receive is a standard ASCII (text) file, or *.doc file.

I'll keep this in mind, though, when we upgrade the system/service.

193 and 202 (oak cabinets) having oxidised silver plated fittings. You cannot mistake the latter for nickle or chrome as there is a very striking blue colour with a striped effect across the tone-arm etc where they originally applied an oxidising agent to the bright silver with an air-brush to create an "antique" appearance.

Hi Steve:

You mean like this?

YES, Joe_DS, exactly like that! Pretty, eh?

Have you also got a picture of the front of the soundbox showing the fascia with the blued silver?

STEVE wrote:YES, Joe_DS, exactly like that! Pretty, eh?

Have you also got a picture of the front of the soundbox showing the fascia with the blued silver?

Hi Steve:

I was able to find the above photo by doing an image search on http://www.google.com. It came from the site of a Japanese collector/dealer -- http://www.eniwa.co.jp/umeya/newgramo01.html The site has a new main page -- http://umeya.bz/

This collector has some great photos, including one of the very rare HMV 113, which as you know, was basically a table model modified as a portable, with carrying handle, etc., and was sold exclusively to the export market --->



He also has an enclosed horn EMG Mk 4 table top gramophone --->




Back to the HMV sound box, I have seen a couple of these come up for sale on Ebay, and you are right, they look very striking with the beautiful blue and silver highlights.

Yes, I know him, he's not a collector but a dealer who buys all the best stuff out there by most standards! Great guy BTW!

Are you joking when you say you've seen a couple of the soundboxes on Ebay? I've never seen a blued silver one before and I've been looking....

If you ever see another one PLEASE BUY IT OR LET ME KNOW ABOUT IT as I desperately need one. His website doesn't show the front of one of these soundboxes, does it? I had to resilver my own 5a and hence I'm frustrated to find a) a picture of one original to ensure that my new plating is correct pattern etc and b) an original blued silver 5a for sale to replace the existing one on my machine.

the 113 is a very nice machine - I have an all original example in my own collection with a 112 and a 114c.

BTW it was NOT made for the export market but simply manufactured in Calcutta by HMV for the British expatriates, tea-planters etc. I have no idea how many were made and there aren't any surviving records either.

Presumably (given that they weigh an absolute tonne) it didn't matter how heavy the machine was as the owner would have had it carried by one of their servants?