Seeburg M100C play sequence issues

I'm having the following issues with my Seeburg C. I have the manual but cannot trace the problems. Here are the symptoms:
-when the power switch is turned on the motor immediately starts and repeatedly scans back and forth. There are no credits, and no selections have been made.

-if credits are established and multiple selections made by pressing buttons on the electrical selector, the motor will scan and stop at the selected record, the transfer arm places the record on the turntable, the clamp arm clamps the record, the pickup arm is placed at the beginning of the record, the record is immediately rejected, transfer arm replaces the record, motor scans to next selection and repeats the process (scan-select-reject).

-selected records do not cancel and are selected again, popularity meter does not increment.

-switches, contact block and coils have been checked, clutch has been cleaned and lubed, disconnecting the reject switch did not help, both service switches work normally.
Suggestions as to causes will be appreciated. Thanks, Steve.

Steve,
Sounds to me like you have two independent "problems"--
Start with the scan problem--
Locate the "play (motor) control relay", inside the stepper "box". Check to see that it is energizing when power is applied, and relaxing when power is denied. Check that the contacts are actually "opening" when relaxed --not "welded closed"--caution--that is high voltage there ! If none of those is causing the problem, locate the single wire connecting the SAU and ES--unplug it, and the relay should relax. If it relaxes the relay, you have either a pin PARTLY pulled, or an internal short in the SAU. Best thing to try at this point is to pull all pins, and reset each one--
On the record returning to the rack problem--
First thing to do is unplug anything that's been inserted into the remote reject plug on the WSR. Make a selection and see if that fixed it--if not, remove the mechanism cover, and locate the "Detent release lever". Make a selection and observe this lever. It should "pop up" as the mechanism approaches the selection made. It should fall down shortly thereafter. If it's staying up--you must determine the reason for this--mechanical bind, or electrical function. The easiest way to do this is to make a selection and hold down on that lever after it has "popped up". If the problem is electrical you will feel it "buzzing" with your finger. If it does not play the record, the problem is mechanical--
Let me know what you find, and we can go on from here, if need be--
Ron Rich

Hi Ron,
Problem 1) I checked the Play Relay and it does energize when power is applied, and relax when it is denied. The contacts are not welded and do open when relaxed. Disconnecting the single wire from the SAU and ES causes the Play Relay to relax and stops the motor from scanning. What do you mean by "pull all pins and reset each one"?

There is one odd thing that has occurred. There is only one record that will play correctly. It is in positions K-9 and K-10. It is selected, plays, and cancels correctly. Any thoughts why this one record and not the others will function correctly?

Problem 2) Removing the remote reject plug did not help. All records except K-9 and K-10 reject as soon as they are clamped to the turntable. Release lever does not stay up for all selected records, it does go up and down as you point out. Holding it down does cause a loud buzz. Does this indicate an electrical problem with a switch somewhere?
Thanks for the help Ron,
Steve.

Steve,
"Pins" are the selection levers in the SAU--"out" is the "selected state" in is the "non-selected" state--Pull them all out, and then push them back in.
You have "thrown me" in stating that the one selection will play OK--does it cancel the pins for that record? ( the carriage has no way to "detect" which slot it detentes at ?)
Did you just purchase this phono--was it transported without the mechanism PROPERLY bolted for shipment ?
Ron Rich

Ron, could this be a broken wire in the harness?

I had a somewhat similar prob in one of my "V"s. The readout lead had developed a knuckle and broken internally. When it reached the left side of the mech it would trip, not elsewhere. I watched the 0A2's and noticed the lack of flicker as it scanned in the affected sections.

IIRC, on these EM machines there are two "readout" contacts that hit selected pins. He should try touching the contact fingers underneath to the chassis as the machine scans to see if it trips at all points.

Rob/NYC

Ron,
I pulled all the pins out then pushed them back in. They are all in alignment. With all the pins in the non-selected state the mech repeatedly scans back and forth and does not stop. I then made some random selections from the ES and had the same problem of selecting records then immediately rejecting them.

I then manually put all the pins in the non-selected state and selected all 100 selections from the ES. All the pins went to the selected state and the mech stopped at each selection, clamped a record, then immediately rejected it EXCEPT for the following locations: D3, D7, F3, G7, G8, K9, K10.

At the above locations where the record played, the pin did cancel correctly but the others did not cancel. The juke was not transported and the selection block appears to be aligned. All pins can be selected and for the records that do play the pin does cancel.

Is there a likely switch or a broken wire (as suggested by Rob) that I can trace that might cause these problems?
Thanks.

Hi Steve, Rob,
I doubt that you have a broken trailing cable problem in this instance--I have seen this too often in V and LPC models--as it does detent at the selected space. Did you check the clamp arm reject switch--and I assume that you still have the end of record, and remote reject switches, dis-connected ? You might also check that neither "sensor", on the contact bock, "sits" on the selected pin at detent,as this, in combination with slightly mis-adjusted conts on the mech can cause "strange" problems--
As for the continual scanning--something has probably fallen down inside the SAU that is making contact between ground and the motor run, contact bar--This will probably require that the SAU be dismantled, and whatever it is removed--by any chance, did anyone "spray" something in it ?
Ron Rich

Steve,
Just "thunkedov" a quick way to check on the reject problem---
Remove one of the records that will play and swap it into a spot that won't play, stick that record into the slot that would play----If the problem follows the record that will not play, the camp arm switch is adjusted too "tight" (turn switch adjusting screw clockwise).
On the scan problem--you MAY be able to remove the SAU and 'shake out" whatever is causing your problem---
Ron Rich

Hi Ron,
Just before I logged in just now, I went through the manual again and I did focus on the Clamp Arm switches since that could cause an immediate record reject. It turns out that the switches were slightly out of adjustment, and depending on the THICKNESS of the individual record, either it would play or would reject. The problem did "follow" the record as I moved a playable record to other slots as you suggested.

So that problem is resolved but there is still the constant scanning problem. I'm not looking forward to disassembling the pin bank! Is there something else that might be causing it?

I'm sure I'll be back with other issues but for now I'm listening to my C
Thanks for your help.
Steve.

Steve,
That thar is progress--taking the SAU apart is no big deal--just a lot of screwin'--Getting it back together, CORRECTLY, however, especially the first one, is a PIA.
As long as all selections will play, I think I would remove it from the phono, and remove the cover, turn it upside down and attempt to shake out anything that could cause this problem --1st.--
Ron Rich

Hi Ron,
Everything seems to be working now except for the scanning issue. Before I remove the SAU and shake it (or disassemble it) is there a way to localize where the short to ground may be by checking continuity from ground to each individual non-selected pins? Or by checking the SAU's large black plug from ground to the individual connections on the plug? Just a thought before I go further.
Thanks, Steve.

Steve,
Not that I can think of--the ground is "common" to "everything"---
Ron Rich