DS100/160 Auto Speed

Morning

I just hooked up 2 auto speeds and they both work fine on 33 1/3. One refuses to return to 45 and continues to play at 33 1/3. In my manual it says this can be caused by the “Power Relay stays in energized position due to residual magnetism or dirt on pole face.” I am unsure what they mean “pole face”? The manual does not say anthing about how to correct this situation????

Would I burnish the contacts in the Power Relay on the auto speed unit to remedy this?

Is there any other item I should check to get the auto speed to return to 45RPM?


Best
Darrell

Hi Darrell,
The "pole piece" is the top round, metal section of the coil. The part of the relay that "contacts
the pole piece" ("armature") is usually the problem in this case. "Burnishing contacts" will have no affect on this condition, unless one, or more, of the contacts are "welded together". If by chance there are some welded contacts, they will need to be filed (or replaced ?), then burnished, and re-adjusted, correctly, to specs !
What needs to be done is as follows:
With the power OFF, remove the cover from the relay--examine it for "welded" contacts", be sure the "pull back spring" is attached and see if it is "binding"-- Also, carefully check the area that connects the fiber material, to the metal, on the armature--this connection MUST still be tight ( If not, set fiber at 45 degree angle, and use "model airplane cement", top and bottom, to secure it ). If "none of the above" cures the problem, you will need to ascertain if the problem is still mechanical, or electrical. To do this, simply play a 33 record. While playing, turn the main power off--if relay does not, immediately, "pop up", problem is that either there is "sticky stuff" between the pole piece and the armature, or, that the armature has become magnetized. Depending on what the "sticky stuff" is, you may be able to remove it with safety solvent and a piece of thin cardboard--If not, or the armature is magnetized, you will need to carefully dis-assemble, the relay. If magnetic, the armature must be DE-Gaussed.
Should the problem be "electrical", you will need to "get out the schematic" !!
I HOPE that these "Autospeeds" are the "Transistorized", NOT tube, versions !!
Ron Rich

Ron

Thank you. Will report back later with results. They are the transistorized version.

Best
Darrell

Ron

Fiber and spring appear to be fine. "While playing, turn the main power off--if relay does not, immediately, "pop up", problem is that either there is "sticky stuff" between the pole piece and the armature, or, that the armature has become magnetized."

The relay immediately pops up when you shut the machine off or when you push the record reject button. The problem seems to be that when the 45 RPM record is loaded the relay comes back down as it does when a 33 1/3 RPM is playing. I should also tell you that a respected jukebox tech that I met at the Chicagoland show in St. Charles just rebuilt both of these auto speeds.

I suspect that the problem lies with some switch that is not operating correctly that tells the relay not to make contact between the "pole piece" and the armature when a 45 RPM is mounted? I think the problem may be in the "clamp arm switch" if that makes any sense? Now I need to locate the clamp arm switch. On page 12 of your "Mech Guide Book" you reference this switch and that it detects the size of the record hole to determine what speed to operate at. I am trying to figure out why this switch operates the machine at 45 RPM without the AS, but with the AS in it will only play at 33 1/3 RPM? Faulty switch? Out of adjustment switch? The size of the hole in the 45 record is the same with or wirthour the AS?

Best
Darrell

Hi Darrell,
You have me confused--You state that ( as I read it) only ONE of the AutoSpeeds (AS) does this--??
The AS does NOT determine, when to work or not. This is done by the clamp arm switch, as you point out. THIS model Phono operates at "45rpm", at all times EXCEPT, when the Clamp Arm switch "detects" a small holed record. Without the AS in series with the mechanism, the clamp arm switch is connected to nothing, which explains why it runs at 45rpm without the AS connected. Look at the service manual, and adjust the clamp arm switch correctly, or find the "short" causing the relay to function. Ron Rich

Ron

I have 2 Seeburg DS100 and 2 Seeburg DS160. 2 of the DS's have had a TASU working in them for a few years. I recently had two more TASUs' rebuilt. One works properly and the other one does not. Sorry about confusion.

I will adjust the clamp arm switch correctly as shown on page 2465 of the manual, or find the "short" causing the relay to function, or find the "short" causing the relay to function, as I think that is where the problem is, not in the TASU itself.

Good news, no adjustments needed and no shorts! When I went to the clamp arm, I found a loose screw was blocking the clamp arm from traveling the proper distance. I removed the loose screw and it is now functioning as intended!

Thanks for the assistance.

Best
Darrell

Hi Darrell,
Glad you found it--enjoy !!
Ron Rich

Ron said: "I HOPE that these "Autospeeds" are the "Transistorized", NOT tube, versions !!
Ron Rich"

Well I now have this tube type in a Q. It has been recapped and was playing fine. Now it loads the record and everything comes to a halt? Other than recommending I throw the ASU away, how would you resolve this issue? I suspect the clamp arm switch, what do you say?

If you have the time. what is it you do not like about the tube ASUs?

Best
Darrell

Hi Darrell,
On the type of ASU--RTFM --Both, the Q and the Y manuals, have a two (?) page warning/instruction sheet for installing the tube type units--if NOT done, as per the instructions, 1. Fire is very likely, and 2, It voids the UL approval.
As for the mech stopping at the playing of a 33 rpm record, it's not the clamp-arm switch--the ASU is failing--which model TASU is installed in your phono ? Ron Rich

Hi Ron

I did read the manual and I am aware of the ventilation notes which i think you are referring to? It is ventilated properly. This is a model ASU1 Code A. I do not see any trouble shooting guide for the ASU and as the ASU was recapped I was looking for some guidance as to what may be failing? I know you have not worked on them for years, but, I was hoping your great memory would kick in to the time in 1970 where you made a service call to Joe's Bar and Grille and repaired that ASU with the same problem within 20 minutes and wpould pass that information along

Best
Darrell

Hi Darrell,
Yep--venting problems are rampant in those--
If re-capped, several years ago, a "new cap" could have failed, but it is also likely a tube, or something else, has failed. The one in "Joe's Bar", was NOT repaired as it was, probably no longer used, or replaced with a TASU, or just un-plugged, in most cases. I don't recall ever fixing one of them ! Nothing in my memory bank about those--other then seeing the fire damage caused by them, too many times ! Only fixed a few TSAU's--- Just need to get out the schematic, and trouble shoot, as you would any other electronic item-- Ron Rich

Ron

If you know, what creates the fire from these units and is that why most of them are no longer available?

Best
Darrell

Hi Darrel,
Lack of proper ventilation, and/ or the air intake screens get plugged up !
Also, Seeburg abandoned the 33 rpm single program-I expect due to lack of sales ??
Ron Rich

Ron

Will keep a close eye on ventilation. FYI, I found the 5U4 tube was bad. Put a different 5U4 tube in and it is working again.

Easy fix --- this time!

Customers can be cheap and I am sure they would not have wanted to pay more for album play even though they were getting additional music for their money.

Best
Darrell

Darrell,
Cool--a bad 5U4 will stop anything that is supposed to have a good one installed.
Seeburg abandoned the 33rpm, single at no extra charge per play, Artist of the week, STEREO, promo, but took on albums (at a higher price per play in the LPC models (LPC stood for "Long Playing Console"). That promotion sorta "petered out", over a number of years too. Ron Rich