A newbie's tale on trying to get a Wurlitzer 3310 to work...

Ron Rich wrote:Hi Julie,
As for the grease--maybe--I dis-like "combining" types of grease, as I find they often do not combine well--just turn into "glue"--should be OK if you remove all traces of the "old stuff" first--however I prefer a graphite based grease, as it does combine well, with 20 wt. oil.
Has the bottom of that screw been broken off ?? Adjustment is covered in the Service Manual. Ron Rich

Oh I see, you mean that this nylon screw could have broken off and be too short now to push the brass plate, (safety switch written on it) that you see in the video, far enough to place the stop pin between the tone arm's latch correctly to make enough room forward for the tone arm?
hahaha I am editing my text with the correct words from the manual every 2 minutes ... I am learning, people!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtkgA_KMPM4

Hi Julie,
Yep--attaza whut I waz awonderin ! ! I have seen a few of them broken off--and on the earlier models, where they used a metal screw there, as an "actuator", I have seen them put a hole in that black metal (lack of proper grease ?), and also jam-- Ron Rich

Rob-NYC wrote:Julie, take a look at the set of contacts on the cam lever -that is the assembly that retracts the pilot. From your video it appears that the white actuator of that set of contacts is jammed on the periphery of the hole not sticking through it. That is a crucial function in that it both determines that presence of a small hole record and times that changeover.

Also, remove the small light bulb at the top of the mech. That should prevent any attempt of the mech to change to 33 rpm (not directly related to the clamping issue, but best to pare down operations as we try to solve this.).

BTW: Does the tonearm release when you manually clamp the record? And, do you have a small hole record.
There are several things going wrong here. This would be solved in about 2 minutes if it were in front of me..but we'll get it eventually.

Rob

Hi Rob!
I found a video I took yesterday that shows the actuator when the ASSY. moves. It does not seem to move very much... Is it suppose to disappear in the hole? Look at the near end of the video the yellowish actuator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvsFLtjpO9s

Update on my homeworks
- I think we have a guilty little bugger as far as the tone arm is concerned. I see the nylon screw go in but it does not come out. So this would in fact explain why the stop pin does not go far enough to let the needle touch the records. Went to Home Depot and bought the same size nylon screw..
- I removed the light linked to 33 rpm as recommended
- I have taken so more pics of the actuator from the cam pilot assy. I do not quite understand what is the correct behaviour of this other nylon screw as it is screwed to anotherpiece of metal behind the one with the leaf switch on it .
The leaf switch near the end of the screw is NO. Is it supposed to close at some point?
- Found a small hole record, awaiting more homeworks to test that

Hi Julie,
Well, it appears that my pea brain did recall correctly--a broken nylon screw--I never have replaced it with another nylon one--just used a metal one and added a nylon, screw on, tip. My great but not to long memory says the second nylon screw closes the contacts on the leaf switch when a 33 (small hole) record has been detected by the record clamp-
Have you oiled that unit yet--there is an oil hole, in about the center of the long turntable shaft--fill it several times !! Ron Rich

Yep, broken screw on the tonearm lifter. I'd forgotten that they were nylon. I'll have to look at my 1800 as I seem to recall a grub screw w/rounded tip.

Julie, the Cam Lever Switch looks bent out of shape. Those look to be normally closed unless opened by the lever. Do you have a contact bender (stupid question..I know..) Try carefully removing the switch so that you can bend the blades so that they will stay together except when opened by the screw on the lever.

I suspect that is the problem here. FWIW: I'd probably "lobotomize" the setup and eliminate the 33/small hole function if I were going to use it for revenue service.

Rob

Ron Rich wrote:Hi Julie,
Well, it appears that my pea brain did recall correctly--a broken nylon screw--I never have replaced it with another nylon one--just used a metal one and added a nylon, screw on, tip. My great but not to long memory says the second nylon screw closes the contacts on the leaf switch when a 33 (small hole) record has been detected by the record clamp-
Have you oiled that unit yet--there is an oil hole, in about the center of the long turntable shaft--fill it several times !! Ron Rich

Hi Ron!
Your Pea brain was right on! We can upgrade him to Brussels sprout size!! Thanks for that! I will change the screw during the week end and have some fun adjusting it with the manual..
Yes I have oiled this oil hole, with the motor 3 and 1 oil recommended on this forum but maybe not enough, only once so I will oil it again several times.

Rob-NYC wrote:Yep, broken screw on the tonearm lifter. I'd forgotten that they were nylon. I'll have to look at my 1800 as I seem to recall a grub screw w/rounded tip.

Julie, the Cam Lever Switch looks bent out of shape. Those look to be normally closed unless opened by the lever. Do you have a contact bender (stupid question..I know..) Try carefully removing the switch so that you can bend the blades so that they will stay together except when opened by the screw on the lever.

I suspect that is the problem here. FWIW: I'd probably "lobotomize" the setup and eliminate the 33/small hole function if I were going to use it for revenue service.

Rob

Hi Rob,
Well, believe it or not, I do have a contact bender I bought a Pinball (Bally Medusa) for 40$ as it was broken and repaired it. Story sounds familiar? Wish I had known about forums then .. Electronics, I can manage but mechanisms, when you know nothing about these... I had my share of leaf switch adjustments... 2 lower and 2 upper flippers... But hey, she is perfect now! Hopefully that will be the case of my jukebox as well with all of your help in here

- Now that the tone arm issue is , I hope , out of the way ( I will replace the screw this week-end) and hopefully receive my stylus , on to the record clamping issue.
- I will oil the hole under the record carriage again as mentioned by Ron, even if it is not related as you also mentioned oil oil oil! So I will Any other important places to oil?
**What should I do, look for to fix the record clamping issue
- Any oiling point that would help the pilot assembly out? You did mention that it looked like an oiling issue at some point
- Is the Cam lever assembly doing its work correctly? Mechanically that is?
- Still have to figure out with the manual if that cam lever switch is NO or NC when there is no records on
- When should this switch trigger? Only when a small hole record is detected?
- The drive wheel does look a bit used and abused it may explain the manual start of spinning
Anyway, one step at the time as they say What should I start with now?
Thank you
Julie

Hi Julie,
Do not attempt to install a new needle without reading the manual--it's VERY simple, but also, VERY easy to "mess up" (do NOT axk!!!)
My feeble mind says the the "idler wheel" is pulled away from the motor when the needle is off the record, or at motor power off ? And released as the tone arm starts for the record, or motor power on ?--so, if the tone arm problem is fixed by the new nylon screw, this may be self-correcting ?? Ron Rich

[quote="Ron Rich"]Hi Julie,
Do not attempt to install a new needle without reading the manual--it's VERY simple, but also, VERY easy to "mess up" (do NOT axk!!!)
My feeble mind says the the "idler wheel" is pulled away from the motor when the needle is off the record, or at motor power off ? And released as the tone arm starts for the record, or motor power on ?--so, if the tone arm problem is fixed by the new nylon screw, this may be self-correcting ??

This is logical indeed! Wouldn't that be nice, self-correcting is my new favorite word!
This would mean one less headache!
My first plan was to wait for the record clamp to be ok before changing the needle, but, knowing me, I bought more than one needle and another cart..just in case
So I will go ahead with changing the screw, and see if this fixes the loose drive wheel issue at the same tim!!
Thanks Ron!

Ron Rich wrote:Hi Julie,
My feeble mind says the the "idler wheel" is pulled away from the motor when the needle is off the record, or at motor power off ? And released as the tone arm starts for the record, or motor power on ?--so, if the tone arm problem is fixed by the new nylon screw, this may be self-correcting ?? Ron Rich

Ron, Julie in this case they are not related. The broken screw will fix the setdown only.

The idler is released as the cam allows the pilot to emerge and clamp. IIRC there is a profile behind the cam that lifts a follower connected to the linkage that runs across to the swing bearing on the idler puck assembly. As I mentioned before, the problem here is likely gummy old oil around the bearing and/or a missing or detached spiral spring -very straightforward. This is the sort of problem that gets dealt with when the mech is bathed. If it is not taken apart and bathed you have to deal with the as they come.

Rob

Rob-NYC wrote:

Ron Rich wrote:Hi Julie,
My feeble mind says the the "idler wheel" is pulled away from the motor when the needle is off the record, or at motor power off ? And released as the tone arm starts for the record, or motor power on ?--so, if the tone arm problem is fixed by the new nylon screw, this may be self-correcting ?? Ron Rich

Ron, Julie in this case they are not related. The broken screw will fix the setdown only.

The idler is released as the cam allows the pilot to emerge and clamp. IIRC there is a profile behind the cam that lifts a follower connected to the linkage that runs across to the swing bearing on the idler puck assembly. As I mentioned before, the problem here is likely gummy old oil around the bearing and/or a missing or detached spiral spring -very straightforward. This is the sort of problem that gets dealt with when the mech is bathed. If it is not taken apart and bathed you have to deal with the as they come.

Rob

Can you tell me where to look for a missing spring maybe a number from previous post from the manual and where to oïl exactly to try to fix this?
And also did I mention that when I make the record clamp by manually turning roller myself, the record unclamps normaly when I fake the end of the record, I don't need to do anything, it unclamps normally
Thanks Rob
Julie

Julie, the spring for the idler in attached to a tab at the bottom of the pivot assembly with the idler.

It is shown here: http://www.retroaudiolab.com/pictures/e ... chrear.jpg -just below and slightly to the left of the idler. It may have been stretched or missing on your machine.

Rob

Hi guys!
Thanks to your help, the tonearm issue is resolved!! Changed and adjusted the new screw and voila! Of course I will have to adjust again when my new stylus gets here.
One down two to go
Now, how / where do I oïl the clamping mechanism? I must have to remove the Record Guide Front Casting?
I have a spray on cleaner degreaser No residue that I use in electronics, can that do for cleaning before greasing?
And what are these small tube going in the motor? Oil Pits?
And join here is a picture of the idle spring that does look like it was forced and now is too loose (the lower part seems extended no? ) So probably have to change it if I want that Drive Wheel to spin...
many thanks again

Hi Julie,
I do not remove the record guide--just use my "Valvespout" oiler to put a very, very, small, tiny, drop of 20 wt. on the metal parts you can see through the "circle in the (plastic) fan". Put another drop on the "rear end" of that assembly where the thin post enters into the shaft, and another drop or two on the spring area. Also-add MORE oil to the oil hole in the center of the TT shaft you oiled earlier !
Be extra careful with "spray" or any type cleaners--be sure it won't "eat NOTHING" !!
Yep--the two"tubes" on the motor are for oil !! Fill them, be sure that the oil is going down them--I usually stick a straight pin in the holes, otherwise it sorta just sticks without going down to the motor--fill them 2-5 times as there are large felts on the motor--
The spring has been "stretched--yes--replacement is probably going to be needed --Rob's "Gepetto friends" have struck --again-- Ron Rich