Wurlitzer 2204 transfer motor problem

Before I get into too much trouble...Ron.. ..I do not have a Fantastic Manual to read on the 2200/2204. I do have a couple manuals on either side of the specific one I need. I have one for the 1800 and one for the 2900. I have been using the one for the 1800 to give me some general troubleshooting help, since the mechanism seems similar.
Selection system is functional. Number/letter buttons lock in and the appropriate selection pin is released, wobbly plate activates the override switch, turn table motor starts and amplifier comes on....that is where its stops behavin.
I removed the transfer motor and manually operated the transfer mechanism: the record loaded properly and played with good sound quality. Motor turned freely by hand.
I checked for dc voltage at the transfer motor socket and found 30 volts dc across two pins. When the transfer switch was manually activated the pins under test in the motor socket went to zero volts, however, 30 volts dc was now available across a different set of pins and when the transfer switch was allowed to return to its home position the voltage across the pins under test went to zero.
Disassembled the motor, cleaned the commutator surface and the grooves; checked the brushes: still good, springs intact. Continuity is indicated through the main coil though not a direct short (0 ohms) like I would see in straight a wire. How many ohms should these motor coils typically have? The commutator windings showed continuity that varied slightly as the motor was rotated. Does it sound like a bad motor? Is it possible to test the motor? I tried using a car battery to power the motor and it did not function, but that was only 12 volts for a motor that usually runs at 28 volts.
Am I off track thinking its the motor? If so, suggestions of what else to check?
Thanks again, Craig.

Craig, I had this on a 200 play wurli mech one time and it ended up being the loading switch.

Try this. With no pin activated (power on of course) Turn mech motor by hand (twist the nub with your fingers) and try reversing the motor. like you're trying to put a record INTO play. It should suddenly kick back at you the opposite way and pull the lift arm back down. This confirms the motor is working properly and is functional.

Now, do the 104 play machines have a loading lever like the 200 play machines? If so, and the above test worked, you probably have a bad on/off switch right underneath the loading lever. This will cause the mech motor to not go forward. Good luck

hirdlej,
As I mentioned in my initial posting, I do not have the exact manual for the 2200 series jukebox. I was hoping this was one of those times when the mechanism remained similar back to one of the manuals I have, which is for the 1800. Because of this I can not tell you if the 200 and 104 selection have the same loading lever system, though, I would "guess" they do. I did not see and "off" switch associated with these levers, but since the levers are spring and cam actuated,there could be a switch at a distal location, but there was no switch under the load lever. I do not want to install the old motor for testing if I can do it while its removed. I will try two 12 volt car batteries in series to get to the proper operating voltage for this motor. I suspect it is a motor winding problem, but was hoping somebody would tell me I was wrong. It looks like I will be in the market for a motor.
Thanks again, Craig.

Guy's.
Loading lever switch is the same on both models--same place too-- It's a "toggle" type--same as used the for power, on/off switch.
Ron Rich

Craig, here is the functional of the W2204:

http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... ort=3&o=23

You should be able to trace out where the voltages for the changer motor are failing.

Note that these motors have a field coil that -must- be energized at any time voltage is applied to the armature.

Rob/NYC

Rob, I did a little online review this evening of DC motors theory and did exactly what you pointed out and the motor worked great in both clockwise and counterclockwise directions, even with only 12 volts. I did get it to work with a little manual spin on 24 volts, but it would only go one direction even when polarity was swapped, which was the reason for my review of dc motor theory. I will review your link tonight.

Ron, I only found 2 toggle switches on the 2204. One was the power switch on the amp and the other one is on the back of the junction box that bolts to the bottom of the selector wheel. That switch says motor switch on it. If that's the switch that hirdlej is referring to, I checked it and it is good. There may be another toggle switch that I have not found yet, but even with my glasses on I could not find it. It would not be the first time I looked right as something and did not see it.

Thank you both for your help, Craig

After review of Rob's link, I found the motor switch and the loading switch are two different switches and both are indicated in the schematic, however, it does not indicate where that toggle switch is physically located. Could somebody tell this blind man where to find the loading switch. It may be my problem if it is open.
Thanks again, Craig.

Craig, I was just about to chime-in and tell you that the "loading switch" in on the front deck under the carousel -slightly to the right of center. It is actuated by a silver handle. The toggle is just mounted in a hole on the deck and faces upward. It would not be too surprising if it has been removed. Two of my three 1800's had either the loading or service switches removed and wires just twisted together.

At least one of the 3 -2300's did too.

On the 200's (and possibly later 100-104s) it is on a small platform further down and actuated by a swing handle that also raises the cranks.

Rob

Rob, found it with your help. I was looking everywhere for a toggle switch. I should have thought about that type of arrangement, since a similar placement is used on my 3100. So glad that my sight is not getting worse, just the rookie factor in my case.
The switch was in the load position, which would open the circuit and not allow the transfer motor to run, if I'm reading the schematic correctly. Nuts, wish I would have caught this earlier. hirdlej had mentioned the possible failure of that switch in a round about way for testing motor function (thanks for mentioning this hirdlej). I took the selector wheel and junction box off the bottom of the mech, because there was a capacitor that was shedding its wax. the cap was connected to the motor plug, not having a clear schematic I could not figure out its purpose. I thought it may have gone bad and be the reason for my problem. Cap tested good and it looks like a switch position could have been the final problem. The one obvious issue was the transfer switch was stuck under the plunger and could not move. It looked like the previous owner moved the jukebox without tightening down the table hold down nuts. Two of the springs were laying sideways and the transfer switch was jammed. Before I transported the machine I reset the springs and tightened down the bolts to prevent additional issues.
Thank you again, Craig.

Well, is it up and running now?

hirdlej, I do not have a spare cap with the same value as the one I cut out and since its an old paper/wax cap, I will replace it with a new one which is on order. I have a cap on order for this unit, a choke for my Seeburg C, tubes for: AMI G, Rowe Diplomat and Wurlitzer 1250 and they probably wont be here for a week. I will have to focus on cleaning, lubricating and replacing some screws that I found missing. Unfortunately the local electronics stores carry more cell phones than component parts now a days. I will update when she starts properly playing records again.
Thanks again, Craig.

After replacing the cap, that really did not need to be replaced, the mech operated almost correctly. It loads, unloads and plays records, but it is a bit confused about the "D" selections, it will not stop at them, usually stops and loads the adjacent record. I might have something out of alignment after re-installing the pin bank. I need to review the manual, in my case a manual that is close to it in design/function (the 1800 series) since I don't currently have the 2200 series manual.
What cleaner do you folks use on the jukebox grills and how do you apply it to avoid getting bad stuff into the speakers that are right behind the grill?
Thanks again, Craig

Craig:

Come on down here to Tumwater. We have an excellent electronics parts store called Electronic Resourcing on Mottman Road. They are open 8:00am to 6:00pm Monday through Friday (not open on weekends). It's where I buy all my parts from when I need something right now.

Electronic Resourcing, Inc.

Address: 2500 Mottman Rd SW, Tumwater, WA 98512
Phone:(360) 943-1071

They carry the full line of NTE components: transistors, ICs, diodes, resistors, relays, switches, light bulbs, heat shrink tubing, wire, solder, hand tools/crimpers, etc. They stock Nichicon electrolytic capacitors in radial and axial leads and in high temperature ratings too.

cmangeng wrote:After replacing the cap, that really did not need to be replaced, the mech operated almost correctly. It loads, unloads and plays records, but it is a bit confused about the "D" selections, it will not stop at them, usually stops and loads the adjacent record. I might have something out of alignment after re-installing the pin bank. I need to review the manual, in my case a manual that is close to it in design/function (the 1800 series) since I don't currently have the 2200 series manual.
What cleaner do you folks use on the jukebox grills and how do you apply it to avoid getting bad stuff into the speakers that are right behind the grill?
Thanks again, Craig

On the "D" selections, make sure the correct pin is firing. If the correct pin is firing, the backstop pawls on the carousel are probably out of adjustment. These are the 2 clickers that you hear as the carousel rotates. These are what line the records up with the lift arms when the record basket. If these are off, it'll pick up the wrong record. Otherwise, since it's a 100 play mech, it could be the lips on the end of the lift arms that load the record are bent from someone playing around in there.

If detenting correctly at all but "D" selections, the "Back-stop pawls" are fine--do not attempt to re-adjust them.
If the correct pin is pulling, it "hastabe" alignment of the ES ! Ron Rich