SOLVED: Seeburg Da Vinci 100-79M - B-side trouble

Hello - longtime coin-op guy, first time poster. New to jukes, with pinball and video repair background.

I have a somewhat rare Da Vinci "100 select" which looks like the Topaz or Celestia but with a digital display and guts similar to the SMC-1 but with a 50 record mechanism.

Works lovely for playing all the hits -- 100,101,102, etc
Will not play any B-sides though -- 200,201,202,etc

Here are symptoms:

When a 200 (B-side) selection is made and mechanism is moving LEFT (decreasing in numbers): stylus changes sides, record loads, needle drops, ALMOST HOME! but then something appears to go "too far" and the switch stack is prematurely un-engaged and the motor direction changes, the switch stack is re-engaged and the needle drops again with it going the wrong way -- must hit reject to end the torture.

When a 200 selection is made and mechanism is moving RIGHT (increasing numbers): stylus changes sides, record loads, needle drops .... then again, something in the mechanism goes "too far" and then there's an immediate reject, unlike the situation above. The magnetic sensor does not seem to be the problem.

My switch stack looks good, has been cleaned, checked, adjusted... something else is clearly wrong. I have a change to go get a Seeburg SMC book from a friend, but he thinks it won't be as helpful with this problem as I had hoped and urged me to pose the question here.

My theory is something is maladjusted concerning the mechanics after the tone arm is moved to the other side, but I just don't know enough about jukeboxes yet to understand how it's failing. What do I need to understand before ripping into this? I'm a little scared, of course, being a juke virgin after being in coin-op for 25 years.

Thanks,
Gary

Hi Gary,
The only two differences between that phono, and the SMC's are 1. Number of selections--
2. A "Jumper" in the MCU going to "100" rather than "160".
So, if you get an SMC "book", and see selection #179 mentioned, think 149 instead. I strongly suggest that you be sure to purchase a complete set, of manuals, from one of the suppliers listed above--
The set should include an I& O manual, a Tech Manual, A Mechanism manual and parts books on the mech, and amp ( the amp one is usually printed along with a bunch of parts for the previous "MicroLog" models).
As to your exact problem--sounds as if it is a lack of lubrication issue, more then anything else--I would humbly suggest a copy of my "Seeburg Mechanism Guide", should be of help here in allowing you to understand how that mechanism operates. That problem, is, if I understand you correctly, covered in my guide (If you wish, PM me to purchase a copy). Ron Rich

Oh no, it sounds like I've got a pretty complicated problem.
Maybe my best bet is to gut this one and sell the parts,
convert it for digital computer playback instead.
I thought someone might already know what's different about b-sides.
Frustrating situation. It works great otherwise.
Thanks anyway. I should stick to pinball and video.

Oh NO ! Simple problem !! You just need to diagnose it -- Is this the same phono that a "Cliff", wrote about on the Seeburg list ?? Ron Rich

I'm not on any mailing list, name's not Cliff either.
Just seeing what my options are, was told to check here.
I guess there's just too many moving parts and a steep
learning curve, even with proper documentation.
None of my coin-op friends work on jukes, so it's a new
world to me and I have no one to learn from.

Here she is, with Topaz art because the selection panel was missing.
Heck, I think the colored lines art is more aesthetic anyway.

Hi Gary,
If you wish to pursue this further, I will attempt to help--however, as you know, without a common knowledge of the terms used by Seeburg, it will be a difficult endeavor. Would you do me a favor and post a photo of the mechanism area--I have never seen this model in person, or in a photo -- Thanks, Ron Rich ( strange that after all these years two of them "come up" on lists at the same time with VERY similar "problems" ??)

So someone else has a Da Vinci 100-79M with similar problem right now? That is nuts.

Here is a hi-res pic of the mechanism from BACK LEFT:
http://i.imgur.com/5r9lS8v.jpg

I can take more, of course. The model# is a slight increment from the ones in 100-77D topaz and 100-78D celestia. I also have HD video of it (from the back, rack removed) performing normal load & play along with faulty B-side load & play, can upload later if that might be helpful. I have a sneaky suspicion it has something to do with the cam gear in some way, but that's just a guess so far. I've worked on some interesting assemblies on electro-mechanical pinballs, but juke mechs are clearly way more complicated and intimidating.

Hi Gary,
Yep--someone named "Cliff", I think--although a different name showed up on the email address ??
Yep--a video of what it's doing would help ! Show me the "end cam" ( the one that works the needle wiper brush) while lifting/rejecting the B side record--You can send it to my email address--ronnnrich@yahoo.com
Ron Rich

** SOLVED ** ---CLUTCH 4 ADJUST ERROR!

Tonight I found an old seeburg book in my archive (apparently the basics haven't changed much on the design over the decades) and took the assembly down into my workshop. By simply running it through the 3 modes SCAN, TRANSFER & PLAY, in both directions of rotation by hand, I was able to figure out some things such as that the direction of rotation during transfer determines which SIDE it will play (hey, I'm new to these).

What was happening was the B-SIDE operation performed a good TRANSFER and began PLAY, but when the CLUTCH SHIFTING LEVER dropped into the PLAY NOTCH, the actual CLUTCH itself dropped but did not completely clear the WORM PIN at the top. During A-SIDE play, the pin would glide along the top of the CLUTCH, hit a small bur on the top left edge of the "V" slot (making an audible click noise) but not fall into the "V" at all, playing the record fine. During B-SIDE operation, running in the reverse direction, the WORM PIN would hit the bur and force the CAM to continue moving, force the CLUTCH SHIFTING LEVER *out* of the PLAY NOTCH and cause the problem described in the beginning of this post.

SOLUTION: The CLUTCH 4 ADJUSTING SCREW. Backed this out until CLUTCH cleared WORM PIN by 1/16"
(and filed the bur down too for good measure)



CONFIRMED! The highly less-popular B-SIDES can now be played! From 50 selections to a full 100 now!



I've broken my Juke cherry and feeling pretty good. Did some cleaning and lubing while I was in there. Grew up with 70s Seeburgs, so this is a real treat to have it fully working. Did I mention I almost tripped bringing it back up the stairs? Heart skipped a beat.