Seeburg ls1 does not record selection

Hello,
I am beginning work on my childhood ls1, can't wait to get it up and running. I have just purchased the service manual and awaiting arrival, min of july 7.....but would like to reach out for help in the meantime on this pressing problem. I am electronically inclined, while not a jukebox service technician I know my way around electronics.

I've poured over all ls1 posts on this site and learned quite a bit about this machine already, but not my prob/solution. Here's the problem when a selection is made, after pressing the second selection button the buttons stay in ( which they shouldnt) and no response. When operating normally after pressing the second button they should pop out and trigger the carraige to scan to selection and loading of record.
Now the carriage will scan when the service switch is toggled along with the play/scan lever. Inside scc7, if I activate the module shown in the attached picture the carraige will pickup whatever record it is current in front of and play fine. I lnow this is dangerous and wrong however it tells me that the issue is between the selection and sending of the signal, and that carriage is not the issue.
Any help would be appreciated, apologizes for not having the correct part names at this point as I am awaiting the manual.

Regards,
Joe

After reading more posts I believe my latch bar solenoid is not operating as it should. It is should energized, thus causing a selected number, or letter to be held down when pressed. The SECOND button pressed should cause the solenoid to drop out (be de-energized) for a second while the selection is being programmed into the TMU. This is where the problem is the solenoid does not de energize, the selection remains held down with no further action. How can I tell if the solenoid is the problem or the programing of the tmu is the problem, or am I totally of base. Awaiting service manual so not sure where the solenoid in question is or where the tmu is. Just gathered this off research.Thank you.

The latch bar is operating as it should, if it energizes--
Check the 1-6/10 amp fuse in the UDPU-6. If blown, check the relay contacts inside that unit prior to replacing the fuse.
Do NOT over fuse--a 1.5 SB will hold most of the time--- Ron Rich

You're pretty darn good Ron, a gentleman and a scholar. I checked that fuse twice, then again after your suggestion; sure enough a very very slight break in fuse. Funny to see these old time fuses all squiggly.
Ok problem solved. Selection is taking and begins scanning for record, however it never does stop on selection and play record it just continues to scan and scan and scan, no stopping. The detent switch which is pictured here is cleaned and all appears to be working correctly. The following are the voltage readouts on the scc7.

Detent switch open.
1. 1.52
2. AND 3. APPEAR JUMPED. Both showing 1.61.
6. And 7. Appear jumped both showing 0
8. 25.4

Scanning after Play selection
2. And 3. When carraige is moving left shows a 1.42 when moving right it shows .26

When service switch is set to scanning
2. And 3. Do not give an voltage output, or it is very negligible.


Thank you,
Joe

Joe,
"squiggly" ?? Are you sure it is a "slow bow fuse" ?
How are you "reading" the voltages--the read out voltage should be in the 300 volt DC range with the detent switch open--When scanning, with the service switch in play position, it should be half to 60 % of the "open" reading, BUT this reading may only be read with a good quality analog ( old styl) meter--Also, the contact points look dirty to me in that photo---
Ron Rich

What I meant was the old fuse looked strange, I replaced per your instructions, all is well. The detent picture was before I cleaned contacts they are good now.
Attached is a picture of voltage on read out load when the service lever is in the play position. When moved to scan the voltage is 0. The detent is open, the contacts are not touching.

I appreciate your patience and assistance while we get to the bottom of this. Thank you Joe

Joe,
Un plug the mech from the SCC and check the RO voltage.
Ron

I disconnected 13103 Mech, still same reading.

Joe,
I dono what that number is--but dis-connected it should be about 300vdc--if all plugs are out, and it still won't read right, you have internal problems in the SCC-- ( What does the 150 vdc test point read ?) Ron Rich

Ok, believe my meter may have been faulty. Let's start over, I have a new meter.
Ok update on jukebox, now when selection is made it scans twice and stops. Previously it would scan endlessly.
mech plugged in service lever in the play position, detent contacts not touching, no selection made, carraige is idle. I am getting the following.
Read out is 1787 mv. If I make a selection and the carriage begins to move I get a read out measure of 1870 mv when carraiage is moving right to left. When carraige is moving left to right I get a read out measure of 320 mv.
With the mech removed service switch in play my read out measures 1844 mv.

With mech removed my 150 v measures 1873 mv with service switch in play.
With mech attached, selection made and carraige scanning my 150 v measures 1800 mv when going right to left when left to right it is measuring 830 mv.

Thanks,
Joe

Joe, what you are describing is a pretty routine case of current leakage in the following areas of the mech:

1) Detent switch. oil soaked switch that had become conductive. I've had this several times due to my over oiling and the motor slingling it onto the switch.

2) As above but on the reversing switch. This thankfully I have not had to deal with, but it can easily happen as the cable itself becomes "gummy" due to the oil in it's composition decomposing and leeching out.

3) Badly gunked plunger block (under Tormat).

Test: Connect either a neon test lamp, or a high impedance meter to the readout source (-150vdc) service switch in "play" and manually turn the motor shaft to get the mech moving. Does the voltage that is in the MV range ever go to full 150 on the meter? Or, if using the neon, does it light? Both should be happening when the detent sw is open.

If the voltage never rises to full; place strips of a business card between the contacts on the reversing sw that transfer the read out pulse from A to B sides. If voltage rises to 150 and stays, look for leakage on the detent sw. If not, then examine the reversing switch itself for heavy oil and gunk and then trace back to the tie point on the mach and back into the cable.

This is straight-forward leakage testing.

As an aside, did you check the 56K-ohm and 36 ohm resistors in the TCC? resistors in pulse circuits often fail, this is common on Seeburg readouts.

What doc's do you have?

Rob/NYC

Rob and Ron, thank you for all the assistance and determination, very much appreciated.

I located the reversing switch and luckily it does not appear over oiled. The detent switch is definetly moist with lubricant but not to the point where I would believe it would conduct inadvertently.

Ok during testing I was getting bit ever so slightly similar to 9v battery when a senstive part of my ARM would touch the metal rail in front or the doors. I isolated this to the scc by unplugging amp, pricing unit, lights. Looking inside scc now for issue but not sure whew to start, anything you know of that has leaked to a ground before?

Rob once I get unit back together I will test/try ur solutions.

Also right before dissasembling all to locate leak, I started to blow fuses again in subtract fuse of PU, this happened after pressing the switches on the face of the unit just below where a customer would place a coin in the machine. Unsure if related to leak or other underlie problem.

Joe

Guy's,
The read out voltage on most SCC's is an unregulated supply, that should read approximately 350 vdc (not "150"), with ALL plugs removed from the SCC (not "TCC", Rob). The 36 ohm resistor seldom fails as Seeburg noticed the high failure rate on the older units and changed brands of that item. The 56 k resistor is called out as a 2 watt unit, Seeburg also changed the specs of that resistor to a 4 watt unit. One resistor that is prone to failure, in SCC-7's is the 75k-10 watt. This is true only if it is the one with black colored printing on it--red one is usually OK.
As for the fuse blowing--pricing unit problems--usually on the timing relay contacts-- Ron Rich

Gentlemen I love the persistence and all the attention you are giving to my problem. I have recorded a short video which may aid in the trouble shooting.

Rob, reversing switch is pretty clean and card trick didn't seem to do anything. Also I have a test lamp and could not get it to light on the read out under and circumstances.
Go to the below link for my short video.

http://youtu.be/rWsH5WTdk9A

I unplugged the two pronged power cord of the scc turned it around and plugged back into power strip and the voltage on the read out went from steady 1.76 vdc as shown in video to 3.11 vdc???