Newbie S100 Owner - clutch won't disengage

Hi Folks, I am a newbie, Ihave just bought an S100 complete with service manuals. I have managed to get it to do a few things but can't undertand a couple of basics. The motor runs constantly - not sure if this is normal? The clutch is also permanantly engaged until I manually flick the trip relay in the control center. When I do that the carriage stops, a record is selected and everything is fine. If I then move the arm to the end of the record the mechanism returns the record and then the carriage starts to continually go back up and down the track again. I Am missing some basic info and having read the manual do not fully understand what tells the carriage to start moving (ie what makes the clutch engage) so I don't know where to start looking.
I hope someone can help me as I really want to get this going, having saved it from the scrap heap.
Thanks in advance.

Ooops, menat to say that's a Seeburg S100 with the tormat system.

The motor continuously runs because there is a problem in the SPU4. Your SPU4 either has a microswitch that closes to apply power to the mechanism motor or a leaf switch. Seeburg had field problems with the microswitch, and converted later production units to the leaf switch. Probably the switch is shorted closed, or the subtract solenoid that energizes when the mechanism carriage reaches one end of the magazine is stuck or is not energizing due to a misadjusted switch on the mechanism carriage. I do not have the manual with me, so I cannot tell you which switches and solenoids to look at, but you should be able to find them in the manual. Look in the pricing unit section for the 'play control' or 'mechanism power' switch.

Cheers,

Tony Miller

Thank you, Mr Miller for replying to my desperate plea. I have just had another look, the first thing I notice is that the play / service switch seems to make no difference, it just keeps running, regardless of the position the switch is in, which maybe also points to the SPU? I will have a look at the Seeburg manual and see if I can make head or tail out of it.
Thanks again for your time.

OK, so I had a good look at the credit unit and found a blown fuse so i replaced that and now the unit sits there with the motor off until I register a credit and make a selection. What happens then is bizarre. The unit goes in to scan, travels full left then full right at which point a click is heard in the credit unit. It then goes all the way to the left, then back to the right where it tries to smash itself off the end of the track!! I guess this proves a problem in the credit unit but any further insight?
Thanks again in advance.

OK so I had a bit more of a play about and I think I have a weird motor problem. Sometimes when i make a selection the motor won't start and I have to give the platter hub a 1/2 turn, then it goes OK. If I load the motor by putting slight pressure on the platter hub it reverses fine at each end of travel. This is consistent, I have tried it a couple of dozen times, if I don't load the motor it won't reverse properly when it is the right side when looking from the front. Daft question but - what is the motor capacitor for? I assume this is a brushless ac motor? I think I am making progress but I think there is a LOT wrong with my machine
All the best,
Greebling

You are on the right track--the motor is not reversing (or has lost torque) for some reason now. The most common reason for this is that the motor cap add switch is either dirty ( contact points have "burned/pitted"), or is mis-adjusted--check the cam switch adjustments in the manual. If that is not the cause, the next likely cause is that one side of the motor condenser is "open". I would strongly suggest that you should purchase a copy of ("Mr."?) Tony Miller's (guess we've been friends too long ?) "Seeburg 100 Selection Jukeboxes of the 60's and early 70'" book. ( Tony, Make the titles shorter. PLEASE, --my fingers are now sore !). He 'splains exactly how the motor works, along with most other things. It is sold by all the "usual suspects", and by Tony himself, at his Seeburg website. --more to type-- http://home.pacbell.net/fmillera Ron Rich

Hi again, thanks for the answers so far. Ron Rich was spot on, the top switch element of the switch pack at the front of the mech was not making. With that sorted each time I now make a selection I get the old scan twice select nothing problem. I think this is a step on from where I was. The motor now only runs when it should, the mech comes to rest where it should. Weird thing is that now when I manually activate the trip relay in the control box it latches but does not trip the load sequence any more.
Just to recap the issues / work so far:
Mechanism all gummed up with old grease - cleaned and relubricated.
Motor running continuously with clutch engaged - wire off one switch in spu, blown fuse to solonoid in spu.
Also wires broken and shorting on plug from selector switches to spu.
All switch contacts cleaned and lubed.
Motor cap switch adjusted.
Connection problem at trip switch in amp corrected (the one that triggers when the arm reaches end of record).
Now I have to figure what is causing my scan twice then stop problem, then I can move on to the amp.
I will try to buy Tony's book, not sure where to get it in the UK but it must be available somewhere, I only have the original Seeburg books so far.
I was thinking I had bitten of way more than I could chew until I got the guidance you guys have given me, I think now that some small progress has been made and that maybe I am not wasting my time. So thanks a lot I will let you know how I get on.

The "load sequence" problem is the "clutch shifting leaver switch" ( I don't recall the numbering system on that model mech, but I think it's called out as "2M1")--Clean/adjust it as per the manual (or as per my "Seeburg Mechanism Guide")--
I don't know if anyone in the UK sells his ( and my) books, but Stamann in Germany sells em--as well as Tony himself, will ship them--Ron Rich

Mr Rich, you are a very clever man
It was that switch, on close inspection I could see it was not making. It is now though
I now find my next problem - 150 volts on test pin1of the control centre - good, no voltage at all on the write source out pin
I am a bit confused by that as there only seems to be a diode and a couple resistors between the two pins and they all check out ok. I think I must be tired, or old. Or both.
I am a bit confused about these books that you refer to, I assume that both you and Tony Miller have written books about Seeburgs? What are the titles please, I will order them from somewhere in the world. Assuming our pound is still legal tender
Thanks millions for your help, it is massively appreciated.

Now you have me confused---what symptom leads you to want to check the "write source" ?
Yes, both Tony and I have written books--they are available at http//home.pacbell.net/fmillera ,
as well as (in Germany, at) stamann@jukebox-world.de ,and others here in the USA--
The last I heard, your Pound is still convertable, to our "play monie"--- Ron Rich

You said:

'I now find my next problem - 150 volts on test pin1of the control centre - good, no voltage at all on the write source out pin :(
I am a bit confused by that as there only seems to be a diode and a couple resistors between the two pins and they all check out ok.'

There should be no voltage measured here, since here you will find only a short pulse when the SPU cancel solenoid energizes. It closes a switch to discharge the Write-In capacitor (C3114) through the loops set up by the Selector in the Tormat. You should, however, measure +300 volts or so across this capacitor. For this problem, check my website: http://home.pacbell.net/fmiller/troubleshoot.htm I believe it's symptom #3.

Cheers,

Tony Miller

Sorry, wrong URL. It should be http://home.pacbell.net/fmillera/troubleshoot.htm

Cheers,

Tony Miller

Now I am well confused. Ithought too that it was symptom 3 - scan twice, play nothing. In your instructions it says "first check the write in voltage (usually marked write in source on the control centre or selection receiver test terminal strip). for the digital machines the voltage measured at this point will be about +150 volts". Slightly abbreviated but that is the pin I am measuring and finding 0 volts on. Have I misunderstood this? My brain hurts
I am assuming that as I can now manually trip my trip relay and it correctly stops and picks up a record that I am nearly home and just have to find the fault in either my write or read circuit?
I will get those books ordered from somewhere, hope I can get one before Christmas as we really wanted the Juke playing on Christmas day.
Thanks again to you both, I wish I could buy you both beer. And cake.

Ok, I can see where the confusion is. I have now got to the stage of proving just about everything works except the Tormat write in circuit. If I do the trick with the battery and the sense wire (starting to sound like I know what I am talking about ) then go in to manual scan, it will pick up every record, play it, reject it at the end then move on to the next one. I guess this tells me my read and trip circuits are fine? If I put my meter on the write in source pin on the control centre, I see no voltage. I don't have an analogue meter but when I make a selection I do see a small indication of a very small voltage at that pin. I am pretty sure now that my problem is in the write in circuit but there is still something I am not grasping about that circuit.
My next issue will be when I come to check out the amp, I have no volume control. The diagrams show a pot with 5 connections on it, the wiper goes to the input of the power amp, the other 4 wires go to the pre amp. I have not seen an arrangement like this before - anybody know if I can use a standard pot with one end to signal earth, one to the signal out on the pre and the wiper going to the input of teh power amp? If so what pin do I need to pick the pre amp out up on?
PS I have ordered the two books from Stamann in Germany - our pound is worth nothing now Hopefully I will get this baby going by Christmas, I have promised Mrs. Streeb-Greebling that she can have all her Christmas records playing on the day.