Using a Seeburg 3W1 Select-O-Matic with

Color jockey · by **Color jockey** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:56 am

Rob-NYC wrote:Yes, I referred to the mech itself.

As far as sound quality, that opens up a whole new topic.

First off, what pickup are you using?

The original was called a "blackhead": http://www.jukeboxparts.com/IMG_7824.JPG

These were often replaced with the following year's "redhead": http://www.jukeboxparts.com/RedHead%20Cart%20001.JPG

Neither of these were capable of playing stereo records without damaging the stereo image in the grooves. Their overall compliance wasn't very good either.

In 1958 Seeburg introduced their first stereo box and used another Pickering cart which also came in two versions; red and black. Both were electrically identical and interchangeable.

Over the years a number of aftermarket mashups were produced, most used ceramic pickups and are far from ideal.

In 1990 Pickering informed me that they would no longer make the styli for the original mono and stereo carts but would be making a new one that would use versions of the styli they had adapted for juke use in 1966.
In 1992 I got the first prototypes of the 345-03D: http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... rt=2&o=147
Aside from some quality control problems with the two first samples and the fact that these require some addition weight on them or cutting of the counterweights (my preference) these carts produce the best possible sound from these old machines and I use them on all location machines. Unfortunately, they are really expensive and no longer made. Neither are the original styli. There are workarounds for the styli problem.

Post a pic of the cart on your machine.

Rob

: image.jpeg (959.83 KiB) Viewed 409 times

I recently replaced the needles, but no change. Like I said before, it might be normal, just a little scratchy.

-Tony

Color jockey · by **Color jockey** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:05 am

Ok, I am going backwards here. I was playing records to see which ones the 3W1 or WSR5 are selecting incorrectly when suddenly the carriage would stop at each record selection and load the record, then without playing, unload and repeat! I checked and the play control relay is staying closed, leaving the pins on the tormat up. Pushing them back down manually releases the play control relay, but no records will play. Help. I read in the manual that it could be the play control relay has a short to ground, but why all of a sudden? And where?

Please help.

-Tony

Rob-NYC · by **Rob-NYC** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:45 pm

Tony, that is one of the ceramic substitutes that op's installed decades ago to deal with the lack of stereo compatibility.

One of the VL's I bought in early 1989 came with the "Thorpe" version that used two somewhat better ceramics similar to what Magnavox used. It was still mediocre and "Victrola like". I removed right after the location opened, replaced it with a mono Redhead and in early 1990, installed an assembly from a later machine with a stereo cart that Seeburg used from 1966-on:
http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... ort=2&o=69

There are no inexpensive solutions to improve the sound on these machines due to the specialized nature of the arm.

The simplest is to get a redhead and equip it with the newly made styli from Europe. This is a drop-in solution that will sound somewhat better, but a conversion to a later magnetic is the only way to get the best quality.

At this point the questions are; how deep (technically and financially) are you willing to get.

Rob

Color jockey · by **Color jockey** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:31 pm

Thanks Rob. My last problem (I hope) is the records are loading and unloading without playing. I checked the manual and it says trip switch solenoide maybe grounded. I assume that means shorted. Could it be that it is just old and should be replaced? Or do you think it is related to the play control relay? It was working just fine for 30 minutes before, then all of the sudden the carriage stopped playing, just loading and unloading continuously. Sliding the pins back down on the contact block manually stops the cycle. Apparently whatever is supposed to reset those pins is not functioning.

Any ideas?

-Tony

Color jockey · by **Color jockey** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:47 pm

Color jockey wrote:Thanks Rob. My last problem (I hope) is the records are loading and unloading without playing. I checked the manual and it says trip switch solenoide maybe grounded

-Tony

I just metered the trip solenoide (still connected) and it reads 6 ohms at the terminal strip. Perhaps it is the trip switch. Not sure the switch would just fail…

-Tony

by **Ron Rich** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:27 pm

Hi Tony,
Didja ever hear the expression "stuff fails" or similar ??

By any chance, did you use the "bar fight switch" located on the cabinet back to reject a record earlier ?? If so, these have a nasty "habit" of sticking closed.--check it--
Also, is the counter balance on the end of record reject switch in the correct position ? Is that "correctly adjusted" ? --and returning to the open position ?
6 ohms on that coil, for that model, is correct---
Is your problem mechanical, or electrical ?
Ron Rich

Color jockey · by **Color jockey** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:31 pm

I was using the reject/cancel button quite a bit. It doesn't seem stuck. If I unplug from the selector unit, should that bypass the issue? Because it doesn't make any difference.

-Tony

Color jockey · by **Color jockey** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:19 pm

Rob-NYC wrote:

When diagnosing the stepper is is important to note if the miscount occurs only in one stepper wheel -or both. Does it sometimes play a higher letter-number? this indicates that the wheels are gummy and not homing. Or does it always err on the low side by selecting a lower letter or number.

Rob/NYC

Rob,

My 3W1 is operating the selector unit now. But not perfectly, the earlier selections play the correct records (A1-D10) but as it gets higher it plays a track early (K1 selection plays J10). Is this a stepper relay adjustment, or do I need to adjust the points on my selector switch plates? (I disassembled them to clean the contacts). I see mention of "points being gummed up" where would this be?

Thank you.

-Tony

Color jockey · by **Color jockey** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:34 pm

I finally figured out my 100G record reject problem. The trouble was at the trip switch. Tapping on in with the back of a screwdriver would get the carriage to finally load a record. This method of playing a record repeated several times. I removed the switch, Opened it up and sprayed contact cleaner inside, reassembled/installed, problem gone.

Next, I placed a drop of oil on all of the stepper unit relay hinges. I don't know if it is a coincidence, but after that (and the above repair) all records play from the correct selection.

This was a challenging repair, and your input was an integral part of my success.

Thank you!
-Tony

by **Ron Rich** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:44 pm

H Tony,
Glad it's working !! But---
IF, you used a contact cleaner that left any "residue" on that reject switch, it will soon have problems again--use ONLY a "plastic safe"-non residue, safety solvent, on that type of contact ! Ron Rich

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