Rock-Ola 425 gripper arm stuck

Picked up a Rock-Ola 425 "Grand Prix" and the gripper arm is stuck over the turn table at about 45-degrees (as though it was half-way to setting a record down, or picking it up). If I turn it on, the transfer motor (proper term for this model? I know there's one on an AMI ROWE I revived earlier today) does nothing - but something under the turn table begins over heating, so I killed the power before something burned up.

Is there a way to manually advance the gears so the gripper arm returns to the record carousel (still learning the names for the parts, so pardon my ignorance).

Thanks.
Dave

On the end of the gripper motor itself is a small knurled shaft. Turning it will move the motor one direction or the other.

Dave, the #-1 axiom for -any- old machine: Don't plug it in before thorough inspection.

If the machine is shown already in some sort of working condition when you arrive, that is one thing, in the case of items stored for some time do at least the following:

1) Remove the power source for the amplifier. Unplug it or remove it's fuse. This is critical.

2) Check ALL fuses for correct values. Often, as a machine nears the end of it's run it will develop problems that result in blown fuses. Rock-ola are notorious for gripper motors that develop shorted armature turns and draw too much current. Often the fuse is just increased to 'get it running".

3) Do not power the mechanism until you take it through it's cycle manually. This means doing a preliminary lube, removing the changer motor(s) and turning the gears by hand (wear gloves) to make sure there are no damaging binds.

In your machine, I'd now remove the gripper motor, check the fuses and with motor loose see if it runs. It is possible that the gripper pivot is jammed by dried grease -in fact it is likely. You may be able to free it up by using a heat gun (NOT a torch) to loosen the old grease enough to allow you to add light oil and get it working without having to remove and disassemble it. Obviously you must remove any records and use only enough heat to get things moving again.

My approach to all the old machines I've bought was: At least partially disassemble the mech, wash/degrease it. Wash all other components. Rebuild the amp and power supply and take everything through individual test before reassembling and applying power.

Rob/NYC

Thanks for the replies. I'm not entire sure where to start with regards to cleaning/turning the gears by hand (the whole shaft seems locked). I've uploaded some pics here:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/2nmtqb

Thanks.

I won't be plugging it in for some time, I know - there are several wires that were either cut, or twisted together then taped (a right old mess)

Dave, that looks about as bad as I ever seen which, oddly enough, was another Grand prix (434) that I bought from the basement of an old bar-restaurant here in NYC in 1988.

The gripper is completely cocked and probably frozen due to dried gunk. Worse yet, the record basket (magazine) has bent dividers and the whole thing is so filthy it will require major dissassembly and cleaning. It is in about the same condition as the one I bought. The good news here is that 4-5 days later everything was washed, dried, rebuilt and testing had begun.

Washing involves using diluted floor stripper (Zep or equiv) removal of all motors and coils. The cabinet is washed too with all components removed and washed separately. After wash and hot water rinse, I use a vacuum cleaner with clean hose and crevice tool as a blower to remove as much water as quickly as possible. This preliminary phase takes about a half-day.

Since you are new to this stuff, a service manual is essential:

http://www.alwaysjukin.com/items/servic ... s/list.htm

Or:

http://2nd-sight.com/victoryglass/ManualsFrame.htm

It won't have washing instructions, but it will show how things go together again and provide a schematic for both mech and amp (which must be rebuilt).


You definitely have some work ahead.

You might want to join this forum as well: http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list

Fortunately there are a lot of people who have done this work on these boards, so ask away.

Rob/NYC

Many thanks - luckily I do have the manual from Victory Glass already. I've been the laborious task of cleaning it...some nasty filth in the bottom. I removed, and cleaned up the power supply/unit in the lower left, below the magazine. I'll read up on the motor before I tackle it. I was told it was found in a barn, and I believe it - although no dead mice have been found (yet)

"Barn fresh" -Yes, i'm familiar with that. I bought a load from a guy who in-turn had brought them up from Arkansas. The hapless load consisted of a Seeburg BL, Wurl 2900 and R-O's 1458 and 1465. All had been in a barn and all had evidence of habitation.

It was a good deal though since the guy who had them shipped up realized he was in over his head and sold them for what he had paid -minus the trucking cost.

Rob

John Robertson has some info on the R-O gripper here:

http://www.flippers.com/Rockola-tips.html

This via searching here:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en# ... es/gripper

Rob

Rob-NYC wrote:...Worse yet, the record basket (magazine) has bent dividers

The gap shown in the pic is between A1 and V8 and looks to be intentional - the others look pretty evenly spaced (but I will give it a closer look).

OK...so here's what I've done tonight. Per one of the links you or Ken sent, I was able to remove the Drive-Loc pin, reverse cam, and inner gripper casting (no lost spring). The lot is soaking in some mineral spirits. Then I moved to the motor when I noticed something - it was held in place with only two bolts. As luck would have it, I had found a bolt (which was a corroded, not bad at all) in the bottom of the unit and set it aside. It was a perfect match for the missing motor bolt. Removed the other two bolts (which were covered in a layer of grime) and tossed the bolts into the spirits too. The motor I set aside for now. There's a product I've used in the past called "Lectromotive Cleaner" for engines and such (NON-flammable). The can even shows small motors. Anyone had experience with this?

The "gripper spider assembly" (which I believe says "<- Record Playing" on one side) is still locked in place. I snapped some more pics. Will edit/upload those and reply to this post with a link.

Dve,
I use that CRC product often--works great--except around plastic--It WILL melt plastic--for sure (do not axk !!) ! Ron Rich

OK, gripper bow is off, gripper motor is out (cleaning it up). Still can't figure out how to get this part to move. It's still seized up (is there a catch somewhere?) - the two cams at the top won't turn, neither will the gear (barely visible towards the bottom). It rocks a bit by hand, but that's it.

On a side note, the tone arm is not in it's "resting position" (it's moved over where it would be, if it were playing a record). I've looked at the drive shaft but cannot find out what's binding it.

OK, replying to my own post (as my hands dry from an intensive scrubbing with Lava soap)...

Removed the screw that held the "Geneva Gripper Release/Turnover" cams/gears/whatever...noted their position. Removed the Trunnion shaft inside the "Gripper spider" and subsequently the spider itself. That freed up the drive shaft which allowed me to turn it (returning the tone arm back to it's home spot). The Trunnion was VERY gummy. Soaking it all in spirits.

Update to follow tomorrow hopefully.

Dave,
Since you have done way more then I would have--I would suggest that if you get ALL of the old "grease" off, you should use a very thin coating of CRC Stay-Lube Moly-graph (brand), or equal, grease on all "sliding/moving" parts. Ron Rich

Thanks Ron. Will do. I don't plan on any further disassembly Just read through John Robertson's tutorial on the gripper arm. Think I may start wearing laytex gloves...at the rate I'm going, this Lava soap will soon wear me hands down to bone

You should use "Fast Orange" to clean your hands.