How old is my HMV 101?

Thanks for the picture. I checked and there's no side play in the needle bar. I also noticed a few cracks along the "cylinders" which hold the end screws so adjustment would have been out of the question anyway. Tomorrow I go to a place where hopefully I'm able to obtain some gaskets for the sound box that I bought from ebay. I would appreciate some dimensions, thickness etc. to help me select the correct ones. I'll take some measurements from the current one but I can't take it apart and the other one won't arrive for some time.

Timo

Hi Timo:

According to the catalog information on this page, http://www.antiquephono.com/victor.htm the diameter of the diaphragm, itself, is

2 1/8 inches,

so you'll need something to fit that. I think that Steve had some specific type of material in mind, so you may want to send him a private message about a supplier.

JDS

I did some measurements and came up with 2 inches inside diameter and 2 5/16 outside diameter. That is very close to 50 mm and 58 mm respectively so a metric gasket would probably work also. Can anyone confirm that? The diaphragm diameter that you quoted does fit this nicely. The thickness of the gasket is a different matter. The distance between the rim of the housing and the diapraghm is about 2 mm. I would guess that the gasket needs to be thicker to allow for some compression. Was the original thickness 3/32 in (= 2,38 mm) or something else? I don't think metric gaskets are available in that thickness, though.

The original gasket seems to be round on the other side and flat on the other. Just like an o-ring sawed in half. I guess an ordinary flat gasket can be substituted. Do they make these in red/orange like the original or is black colour acceptable? I didn't find any yesterday but I only tried one place.

Timo

Hi Timo:

I know that the original Victor #4 gaskets were a split-ring type assembly. The diaphragm was fitted into a slot in a single gasket. I'm pretty sure that the HMV version was similar. I've also heard that the red gasket material supplied by some shops is not an exact match, in terms of softness, and that some collectors opt to use the white gaskets used to repair Exhibition sound boxes. (It comes in strips and can be cut to the appropriate length.)

There are a number of shops listed on this page -- http://www.proaxis.com/~settlet/record/links.html -- under the section Accessories/Restoration (toward the bottom). You may want to get in touch with some of them to see what is available. Along this line, at the bottom of Steve's posts, you'll see a jump to his gramophones site. You may also want to post your question about gasket material there, since most of that forum's members have expertise with the HMV machines, and should know about suppliers.

HTH,
JDS

Joe_DS wrote:I know that the original Victor #4 gaskets were a split-ring type assembly. The diaphragm was fitted into a slot in a single gasket. I'm pretty sure that the HMV version was similar.

That makes perfect sense. I was wondering what the original looked like.

Joe_DS wrote:I've also heard that the red gasket material supplied by some shops is not an exact match, in terms of softness, and that some collectors opt to use the white gaskets used to repair Exhibition sound boxes. (It comes in strips and can be cut to the appropriate length.)

Thanks for the tip.

I'll go and ask on the other forum as you suggested. I have one other thing that I'd like to know. The bracket behind the tone arm? What is it for? The soundbox? I'll attach a picture to clarify what I mean.

Hi,
the 101 is my favourite portable although the soundbox problems have always put me off the late ones. Soundbox gaskets are largely preferance,trial & error for accoustic performance, & what you find aesthetically acceptable. They are easily changed so will not affect value of the machine. I have found the purpose made no.4 gaskets to be satisfactory & easy to fit. Silicon gasket material is quite cheap so if you decide to use it why not buy a decent length & save it for the next machine. If you find a source of rubber inserts for the neck of a no.4 please put the address on the forum.
Please confirm that you are not considering chroming the early soundbox.

Hi,
that clip is for a tungstyle tin, tungstyles were very hard multiple use needles. The gap should be quite narrow & I think yours has been opened up by someone forcing in a normal needle tin, this commonly happens & is easily reversed.

listner wrote:Please confirm that you are not considering chroming the early soundbox.

I will gladly confirm that If (and when) I get the correct looking brass soundbox with the writing on the back I'll consider the chroming but to be honest I might be put off by the price tag. It wouldn't be sensible to chrome the early soundbox that I just bought at Ebay as it is not the correct type. That would ruin it. If I'm successful in the rebuilding, I'll use it in my 101 until I get the correct replacement, however wrong it'll look like

listner wrote:Hi, that clip is for a tungstyle tin, tungstyles were very hard multiple use needles. The gap should be quite narrow & I think yours has been opened up by someone forcing in a normal needle tin, this commonly happens & is easily reversed.

Thanks for the info. Maybe I should buy a needle tin also. I do need a place for needles and a period tin would be nice. Or are these considered to be collectors items only and not for regular use? Do they make reproduction tins?

Timo

toh

Sorry for the delay in replying - I can't be everywhere at the same time. LOL!

It appears the question about the plated clip has been answered by listner; it IS indeed for a Tungstyle (or Tungstone in the US) needle tin.

Don't worry about gasket diameter. If it's the really soft material like bicycle tyre valve tubing, with a large hollow centre it will easily compress down when you tighten the soundbox. The UK Ebay supplier "soundgen" sells identical HMV NO. 4 replica gaskets; they are a ONE PIECE FLAT gasket ring with a "groove" in the centre to grip the edge of the mica. Persoanlly I don't like them as they sound as flat as they look to me BUT they are correct. I use something similar to bicycle valve rubber and it is so soft it works on all soundboxes irrespective of the "required diameter".

BTW, don't fret about the issue of "should I chrome plate the early No.4?" as the front bezzels are interchangeable amongst ALL no. 4's so even if you did chrome plate it, you could always apply another nickel plated bezzel to the "early" back-plate with writing on the inner at a later date - no damage done either way. It's a fully irreversible process in other words!

I'll see you over on http://www.gramophones.proboards.com now that I see you've joined that forum too!

Regards

Steve

Tungstyle tins are less common than ordinary needle tins & the price will reflect this. There is no reason why you should not put one in the machine but I would not recomend to keep removing & replacing since the printed surface would soon become badly scratched. Needle tins are a collectable in there own right rather like postage stamps but ordinary HMV tins are common & imperfect ones of little value. Happily the 101 has that nice little needle tray on the corner.

STEVE wrote:Don't worry about gasket diameter. If it's the really soft material like bicycle tyre valve tubing, with a large hollow centre it will easily compress down when you tighten the soundbox. The UK Ebay supplier "soundgen" sells identical HMV NO. 4 replica gaskets; they are a ONE PIECE FLAT gasket ring with a "groove" in the centre to grip the edge of the mica. Persoanlly I don't like them as they sound as flat as they look to me BUT they are correct. I use something similar to bicycle valve rubber and it is so soft it works on all soundboxes irrespective of the "required diameter".

As can be seen from my earlier posts, I first thought that there were two separate gaskets. About the material. Is it so that the softer the material the better it is? I'm thinking silicone since it is soft and probably quite durable. I'll see if I can find any tubing or something else that would suit the purpose. I'm beginning to realize that it is not that exact science and it can be done in many ways. Bytheway, the seller "soundgen" doesn't seem to have the gaskets for sale at the moment. Not that I'm going to buy them anyway. I'll heed your warning about the sound quality and try something else.

STEVE wrote:I'll see you over on http://www.gramophones.proboards.com now that I see you've joined that forum too!

I'll be there

listner wrote:Tungstyle tins are less common than ordinary needle tins & the price will reflect this. There is no reason why you should not put one in the machine but I would not recomend to keep removing & replacing since the printed surface would soon become badly scratched. Needle tins are a collectable in there own right rather like postage stamps but ordinary HMV tins are common & imperfect ones of little value. Happily the 101 has that nice little needle tray on the corner.

Perhaps I'll try to find some other small tin or container that I can use there without the worry of scratching it. I've looked the prices on Ebay and the real things really can be expensive. I'm currently using the internal needle compartment for used needles.

Timo

I've now gotten the soundbox that I bought in Ebay. It is actually better sounding than the old one! There is much less distortion, probably because the rubber grommet where the soundbox attaches to the tonearm is much softer. It is rock hard in the old one. The next step is to rebuild the brass soundbox but that is a topic for another thread. This one went off topic long ago

Once more, I would like to thank everyone that participated. You have been most helpful.

Timo