Rockola 441 Light Flash on PSU??? Video added!

Hi Guys,

I have a 441 Rockola and it was working fine, but been stored for 6 months. Just tried it, dropped a coin, pressed selection buttons, the selector arm rotates then appears to stop at the pins (selector levers), and suddenly there's a flash of the bulb on the psu between the read out and write solenoids. And everything stops???
The bulb does 1 flash very rapid its almost light a spark!!! Anyone got an idea as to what to look at first?
thanks

Hi
The bulb is the current limiting lamp and is supposed to flash. I would say after six months in storage the wobble plate slip rings, all relay contact points would need cleaning, Also the gripper assembly would need lubrication. Is a selection lever hammered onto the play position when you select, if so this should pull the wobble plate arm against the wobble plate solenoid (copper spring may be missing)and operate play control relay and read out arm a. If its not putting the selection lever into the play position, check plug connections and clean contacts of accumulator reset coil and adr relay in the credit unit
regards
clones

Thanks for the suggestions. Have cleaned and checked what you said, everything seems fine. I've made a short video thats on youtube that shows the issues, can anyone on these forums help with advise please, or at least watch the video and give your help in solving this issue. many thanks

http://youtu.be/2X5NsGs4jKs

Hi
Just seen the video, re the write in arm not stopping check plug connection from keyboard to write in unit, also check that the jumper plug is seated firmly in its socket(should be marked stepper beside the socket), clean the wobble plate slip rings on each side of the wobble plate. If you manually move one of the levers on the wobble plate into the play position what happens? Does the read out arm start, when the lever is moved into play position this should operated the wobble plate solenoid which in turn starts play control relay and the read out arm. I have seen rockolas whereby if you move lever to scan, the read out arm will move but when you move the lever to open the read out arm struggles to move because of dirt on the slip rings.
regards
Clones

I'm not a R-O expert but, from your description you seem to have things backwards.

When buttons are pressed the -inner- (write-in) assembly rotates, finds the hot section and punches a pin. At that moment the lamp flashes to limit the current being applies to the coil that punches the pin.

When a pin is punched it disturbs the 'wobble plate" inside the pin wheel which in-turn causes a microswitch to close and the mechanism starts to scan an look for the selected pin. Note that there is a small 'assist" coil that pull-in simultaneously with the write-in punch. This helps the pin overcome the weight of the wobble plate and settle in the selected position.

So to sum up: the inner assembly closest to the mech writes=in and the outermost one finds the pin for the mech to play it.

Manually tip a pin into the selected mode. What happens? If the mech now scans it is likely that the assist coil or it's spring linkage is broken. this is faily common.

Rob/NYC

Many thanks for both suggestions and thank you for explaining the wobble plate solenoid. State of play at the moment... I have just come in from the workshop (I mean garage!!!!) and i pressed buttons on selector and the write in arm begins spinning and stops at correct pin, however, the pin is not being moved to play position. So I tried manually flicking the pin in to a play position and the read out arm starts to spin, stops at the correct position and magazine spins, gripper lays on to turntable etc.. returns and all stops fine. I notice that the read out arm does kick the pin back in to normal position.

I'm thinking its something to do with either the 2 solenoids on the write in arm, the wobble plate solenoid or something else... how am i doing???

What and how do I proceed.. thank you..

Hi
Is the problem the same with A sides and B sides?
One of the stop relay contacts operates the accumulator reset relay which provides power to the write in arm coils and hammers the selection lever into the play position,this also powers the wobble plate solenoid.
I would still double check the plug connections in relation to the power distribution unit and credit unit and clean stop relay, adr and accumulator reset relay contacts
Clones

Mark,
It's nothing more then dirty contacts--either on the write in arm or rivets--or on the write-in/stop relays.
If it's in the arm section, I strongly suggest that it be cleaned only with "DeoxIT 5", as that is the only thing I have ever found that will work-- The "last problem" you developed is an indication of exactly the same items as above. Ron Rich

at its past 1am I've given up tonight, wash and bed I think. Probably won't sleep as this jukebox fix will be going round my head..
But I will definitely take on both your advices and carry on tomorrow and let you know how it works out. thanks again!

I'm thinking its something to do with either the 2 solenoids on the write in arm, the wobble plate solenoid or something else... how am i doing???
What and how do I proceed.. thank you.

At the top rear area of the pin wheel on the outermost side you should see a small solenoid with a linkage that connects it's armature to the wobble plate via a spring. I haven't seen one of these machines since early 1992 but from what I recall the spring is sort of "U" shaped.

What I suggest is happening is that the write-in hammer is punching the pin but because the assist solenoid is either dead or it's linkage broken, the pin is falling back to the un-selected state. this explains the momentary "jerk" of the magazine.

Rob

Hi Guys,

I will be working on the continuing saga of my 441 tonight (what better way to spend a Saturday night!!), and look over the suggestions made so far. However, I decided to record another video showing 3 camera angles on the Wobble plate solenoid, Play pins and the write-in carriage arm. They were filmed all at the same time, I've included slow motion so you may see what I have missed!
Please have a look and maybe offer your opinions, thank you.

video:
http://youtu.be/7MlOrjDrHv4

Looks like the coil is not getting enough power to hammer the selection lever into the play position, you can see on the video the wobble plate solenoid attempting to operate although i can't see any movement in the selection levers, so clean contacts of write in arm, clean wobble plate slip rings, stop relay and accumulator relay contacts. Does it happen for a and b sides you may be able to rule out whether the coil is defective as it would be rare that both would fail, also adjust as necessary copper u shaped spring beside micro-switch at wobble plate solenoid
clones

Before {very, very, carefully} "adjusting" the u shaped spring, try the following:
Set some pins to the selected state.
Make a selection you can see. Watch the hammer coils--
If the hammer now can set a pin to the selected state----once again, carefully, or it will be history--- De-select ALL pins, and adjust that spring for increased tension--do not over adjust, as it can hold the plunger in at all times if "adjusted" to tight --Ron Rich

I've just tried what you both said.. here's where it's at now. Cleaned all contacts, checked plugs etc... If I manually flick one of the pins in to play the read out arm rotates and everything works fine. I did try what you said... I made a selection A7 and the write in arm rotated, as soon as it started I manually pushed another pin in to play. The write in arm stopped correctly at the A7 position but nothing happened with the coils and the A7 pin was not pushed in to play, so the read out arm rotated round to the other pin I set manually, and all else worked from that point.

Couple of questions. Is the wobble plate switch supposed to remain closed as long as the pin is in the play position, then when the read out arm pushes the pin back home the wobble switch opens?

I tried making both A and B side selections but neither of the 2 solenoids in the write in arm works. Maybe no power is getting to the solenoids. What supplies the zap of power to these solenoids?

Any other suggestions much appreciated.

Hi
You can see yourself if you have the machine even when it is off that the switch closes when you manually push a lever into the play position and it opens when you push it back. The power is supplied via the stop relay contact to the accumulator reset relay. Check the write in arm for any wires that might have come loose
clones