Wurlizer 2104 Power Problem

Thanks for the adice. I am out of town again and will try this weekend when I return.

OK, here is the latest with the box. I have checked all cables and wires to the upper portion of the box. All are on the pulleys and appear to work properly.

When I turn on the box, the cabinet lights come on and the box is in the rest status. After a few minutes of being turned on, the switch interlock solonoid on the Selector Switch Assembly automatically operates. When this happens, the select light comes on. This switch operates without any buttons being mashed or any action being taken. The select light remains on, although nothing is happening. At that point, I can move the fan and activate the safety switch. That will release the solonoid and cut off the select light. However, after a few minutes, the solonoid will reoperate and turn back on the select light by its' self again.

When the box is in this status, although the select light is on, you cannot actually select any songs. You can press the buttons, and then mash the select button and the buttons will return to their upright state, although it appears you have selected a song nothing else happens to select the record.

If I manually operate a selector pin, the record carriage will turn and the turntable will begin turning - but there is no action to move the tone arm, or the tone arm latch bracket. Nothing happens at all with that mechanisim. It even cycles the record brush, but nothing happens with the tone arm, or the tone arm latch bracket. I have read the manual on that section several times, but am obviously missing something.

I can press and hold the cancel button on the rear of the machine while the turntable is turning and the record carriage will turn, select another record and place it on the turntable which is turning. Again, nothing happens with the tone arm. Pressing and holding the cancel button the second time causes the box to return to the rest status, with both record lift arms in the down position as they should be. At that juncture, it will remain in the rest status with the select light on.

Any ideas as to what I am missing?

#1. What is the "select button" that you are pushing?
#2. Are you releasing an inside pin, an outside pin or both?
#3. What did you do (at the start of this series) to get the record lift arm down?
#4. Have you removed the tonearm assemb. from the "wall"?
Ron Rich

Ron
#1 - I mistakenly said select button. I should have said either reject or reset button. It is the one next to the select light that operates the reset switch - Switch is part # 60375

#2 - I am not sure of the answer to the inside or outside pin. I released a pin from the bottom tray of the selector. I am not sure which pin I released of the 104 pins, or if you are referring to the pins being in the 26 groups for the A - D selections, again I am not sure where in the group the pin was located.

#3 - I got the record lift arm free by removing the entire record changer assembly from the box. I did not take it apart and as you know it comes out as one unit to include the motor, selector assembly, record carriage, turntable & tonearm, etc. I then gently worked the arm down out of the record carriage where it was jammed someway. I did not have to prise it or put too abnormal of force. It appeared that one of the actual record guides on top of the arm was scrapeing the record carriage and had hung causing the problem. Once I got it out, it moves freely up and down when the machine selects a record.

#4 - I have not removed the tonearm from the wall.

Ron,

One other point I wanted to make, I can move the tone arm and the tone arm latch easily with my hand from the back of the wall. It is not seized in position, just nothing happens mechanically, or electrically to move these parts when the box cycles through its' stages. Of course, I have to make it cycle, by releasing a selector pin as I described.

1.The button on the keyboard should say "release" in it. It is used to release any locked (down) key, number or letter. The "Reject" ( or aka, "cancel", or "trip" (off)), is different. It functions to return a record back to the basket. From what you have posted, both seem to function as they should.
2. The pins are arrianged in two circles--inside row, and outside row. One row controls the "top side" selections, the other is the "B", or bottom side selections.
3.--No comment for now--we may need to address this later
4. Find the photo, in the manual, telling you how to set the trip switch. Look at item #3, "latch Bkt, tone arm feed in". After you have I.D.'ed that, go back in the book and find the "mute-play switch timing adjustment", and follow the instructions in the manual.
5. After doing the above, release one inner, and one outer pin and see if that will allow the tonearm to "land" on the record. If not, follow the latch bkt. in, behind the "wall", and you should be able to see what's stopping it from releasing the tone arm.
Ron

Ron,
You might want to sit down for this, but here is the lastest. I can play records manually in all 4 sections - (A - D) and both odd and even in all of the 4 sections. - (By the way, the selector pins on this unit are all in one circle around the drum, rather than an inner and outer circle)
- I have to manually release a selector pin. The record selector carriage will turn and stop at the correct pin.
- I then have to press the cancel switch on the back of the box until the tone arm is released to the record. When that happens, I release the cancel button and let the record play.
- When the record finishes, after a couple seconds, the tone arm will operate the trip switch and return to about 3/4 of the way to it's rest position and stop. (It appears to be slightly out of adjustment, as it is not seized, just doesn't quite make it to the top of the feed in screw). Anyway, the turntable continues to turn, although the tone arm has disengaged its' self as it should.
- I then have to press and hold the cancel button again on the back of the machine, until the record lift arm return to the down/rest position.
The same happens with all 4 sections and odd or even selections in all sections.
It appears I am now down to getting the machine to select the records and then cycle its' self after the record plays. I still am looking for the Right Hand Assembly Switch (64982) in the Selector Switch Assembly, to replace the broken switch. No luck yet, but I am still looking.

I appreciate your patience and help to this point.

You are right--the -04 models only have one rowe of pins, and one selector arm--I forgot, and as I said, I don't have a manual for that model--
Oh , well, My guess is that the "transfer switch" adjustment has been "mucked-with". Follow the adjustments in the service manual, and the phono should play a record.
As for the keyboard switch---good luck. Where in the world are you? You will probably need to find someone that has a "junk" keyboard ard "rob" one of the switch blades from that--or buy a whole keyboard somewhere--
Ron

I am way down south here in Georgia. I will keep looking for the switch and try to figure out the transfer switch, if that is what is causing the problem. I am going to try to go to the Chicago show in April. If I don't find a switch before, maybe I will find one there. In the meantime, I will keep plugging. I have a 50's Seeburg to work on too, so that will keep me busy. Hopefully, It won't be as agravating as this one has been.
Thanks again for all your help.

Good Luck--I suggest that you go to http://www.alwaysjukin.com and purchase "Dr. Know it All"'s Wurlitzer books (and subscribe to the magazine). I think that it will help you--Ron Rich

This sounds like a loose setscrew in the tonearm cycling drive.

As a summary of this thread, I did get this box playing very nicely. Although I believe it had a couple of small problems preventing it from playing at it's original location, many of the issues were due to it being moved improperly to an auction house. There is certainly lessons to be learned from this experience. However, with the help of others I was able to repair the problems and am now enjoying some great music through this old box.

The box was moved to an auction house with nothing secured and handled very roughly. Consequently, one of the record lift arms was jammed, the safety switch behind the fan was activated, the springs were shaken out of the turntable platform, the support arm for the dome was broken and the pilasters were broken.

I was able to handle the obvious issues, such as the jammed record lift arm, springs, etc. (To temporarily fix the support arm, I cut small pieces of metal and riveted them to the sides of the arm then heat shrinked a sleeve over the repair. It works like a champ while I find a replacement arm). After that, through the guidance and with the paitence of Ron Rich, I located and cleared several other problems, such as the operated safety switch behind the fan. He then helped me identify the problem with the mute/play switch causing the box to not cycle. That was due to someone putting too long of a spring on this arm. I could not find a proper replacement for that spring, so using the advice of Roy Dean at Juke Box Junkyard, I reduced the length of the spring (cut it off) to restore the tension on the actuation lever that operates the mute/play switch, clearing that problem.

When cleaning the contacts on the selection assembly, I had located a broken blade switch. This is the switch that operates with the letter selection. I was able to find a new replacement switch and installed it. With that, everything went to work, with the exception of the letter A selections. I pulled my hair out with that for several days and finally asked Dr Know It All - Harold Hagen what to do. He immediately diagnosed the problem as being a linkage problem from the A button to the blade switch. That was wierd, as I could see the blade switch operate with the A button, just like the other 3 letters. However, he was right. The new blade switch has much thinner blades than the original blade switch and, therefore, has less torsion than the old switch. The A button is the fartherest away from this switch. Therefore, it has the longest linkage rod to the switch. Apparently, although it would operate the switch, it would not provide a quick "snap" or movement to the blade switch, which would make the contacts and consequently the selection. I adjusted these contact blades many times until I got them just right. Now, all buttons make the selections and it is good to go. I will, however, replace this new switch with an old stronger version when I can locate one.

Finally, using Doctor Know it All's book, I reversed the spring in the Playrak which put the box on free play and am now really enjoying listening to the old tunes that were included with this box when I bought it. His book provides a wealth of knowledge and I have throughly enjoyed it.

I am still looking for a set of used Pilasters with the inserts to replace the missing ones on this cabinet in case anyone hears of any out there. In the meantime, I am ready to start my next project box which is a Seeburg HF100R. I have purchased the manual for that box, along with a trouble shooting guide and Dr Know It All's Seeburg book covering that model. I know it is a more complex unit than the Wurlitzer 2104, but hopefully, with the books and help of others I will be able to restore this box to a playable unit again. I know it has several issues as well as it needs help with the cabinet appearance. Oh well, it is fun to try.

I hope this summary will help someone working on their box and thanks again to all that helped me.