Rockola 470 selections not being reset after play & balance

i got the first problem solved thanks to ron, and i think i have most operational issues working at this point, but two minor issues remain.

the biggest issue is that after a song plays, the switch is not flipped back, so it will repeat indefinitely. or if there are multiple selections, they entire group will repeat. every once in awhile, it will work properly but i haven't been able to produce a pattern. i found another person that had a similar issue, but i don't understand exactly what he did to fix it, as my parts seem to be different. there is a black plastic lever that it looks like is supposed to push down the switch, but it's not. here is the other thread i saw on this:
http://www.collectingbanter.com/showthread.php?t=249044

the second issue has to do with volume balance. the left channel was way higher than the right, so i turned the left gain way down and the right way up and this evened it out a little. since the right side was getting signal, i thought maybe the issue was the stylus and/or the cartridge. there are three wires going into the cartridge and to make up for the fourth, two of posts on the cartridge are connected by solder. is this normal? i have never seen wiring like that on a cartridge. i was going to put on another cartridge i had that was similar to see if that made a difference, but stopped when i saw that solder.

thanks again,
jason

Jason,
I strongly advise you NOT do as stated in that "other post"---"sandpaper" (of any kind), or "steel wool", is NEVER to be used in a jukebox !
Do you have a Service Manual--If not see "where to find---" above, in the announcements section--and purchase one, if you want to work on t yourself--
Meanwhile, look at the "drum", which contains the selection "pins"--
On the left, there are two "wright-in carriages", that spin when you make a selection and "hammer" the pins into the selected state. There is also one carriage on the RH side. This is the "read-out" carriage. All three are identical. All should have "hammers" on two sides. The "hammers" were made of metal in earlier models, plastic in later models--interchangeable--
If one of the hammers is missing from your RO side, or the coil is defective, or not getting power, it will repeat records, as the "sensor" is still hitting that "selected pin".
Also--it is possible, to have an "un-balanced" record basket cause this problem--basket MUST be filled with records to be "in balance"
Hope that helps--
Ron Rich

i can see that all the hammers are there, but it doesn't seem to be firing on the read out side.

is it supposed to fire when the song starts playing or when it's over?

i have included some photos of the apparatus to see if anyone can tell if something is amiss here.

when a selection is playing, i can touch the hammer with my finger and it resets the selection, so it is physically capable of doing it, just not sure if it's set up correctly.

when i got the jukebox, it had the majority of the songs selected, which says to me that it has probably been like that for a long time. it took me a little bit to figure out how to manually reset them so we could 'start over' with our own selections, but it was a fun puzzle to solve.

thanks so much,
jason

Jason,
Do you have a Service Manual-?-the sequence of operation is shown in most RO manuals--If not--see above in the announcements section for "where to find---" Ron Rich

thanks, i checked the service manual as well as tested the process with the A side vs B side. the B side hammer fires as soon as the selection is found. so i assume that the A hammer is not firing at all, but i am not sure why this is happening.

as i mentioned, i can press it gently with my finger to reset the selection, but it does not appear to be getting the signal to fire on its own.

is there something i can do to test to see where it's failing? or a part i could replace that would correct this?

sorry, i am not a jukebox pro and i know very little about electronics in general.

thanks again for your help on this. any chance you'll be in the phoenix area any time soon?

i suppose i could put all the good songs on the B side...

--jason

Jason,
You have narrowed it down to one of two things--
Either the wiper for that coil is not making good contact, or the coil itself is open. It does not appear to be "shorted", although that is a common failure of these coils.
In order to determine which of the above two things is your problem, you will need to use an ohm meter.
Follow the wires back from the coil--be sure they are still soldered at the connection points. f the soldering is good, check the coil for resistance-- do not recall what it should be, but you can compare the "bad" with the "good" coil to determine that. If the coil is good, then follow the red wire to the contact blade. using your meter check that the contact is making good contact at the slip-ring. If the problem is there, you must remove the contact arm and check the silver contact point--It MUST NOT have any "pits" or "burrs" on it, and it should have the same tension as do the other contacts.
If all is OK--I suggest that you acquire a can of DeOxIt. Spray it on the slip rings, while the arm is still off, let it "sit" a few minutes and wipe it off--then re-install the contact arm and spray it again, while using the service switch to power the basket --USE NO abrasives of ANY kind on the slip rings, or contact points.
If the contact point is pitted, you will need to file out the pit, AND, then burnish it with the proper tool--if there is enough silver left--or install a new silver point.
Hope that helps--No--don't expect to be there anymore--had a "Buddy" in the area, and for many years, my wife and I spent a week or so there, every year--but he's gone now--- Ron Rich

i checked all the slip-rings and they appear to be making contact, except the two innermost, which have black wires. i didn't try the DeOxIt yet since they all seemed to have contact.

the outermost wiper with a black wire started rotating the carriage when i touched the slip-ring and the wiper at the same time.

i cleaned the brass piece that touches the connector that touches the switch for the selection. it was pretty dirty and i hoped that would solve it, but no luck. this is the piece that is attached directly to the blue and green wires. my gut is telling me the problem is between this or the coil.

the wipers seemed a little uneven, but they all seemed to make contact.

the last thing (i think) is the coil. i purchased an ohm meter, but i am not sure how to test the coil to see if it's ok. just not sure where to put the ohm contacts to test it.

i am a little worried to take off that old tape to see if the red and black wires are making contact, but i can't see how they'd come loose. it looks pristine at that part.

i have had the read-out carriage out three times as many hours, so i am pretty comfortable with that now.

could you let me know how to test the coil if possible? i think i should send you a gift after this. so far, you are the only person on earth who is available to ask. thanks for that.

--jason

Jason,
Depends on what type of meter you purchased--
I will assume it's an "auto-range" digital type
With the RO carriage off the phono--set the meter to the ohms range. Touch one lead to the red wire from the coil and the other to the black wire from the coil (both coils black wires, go to the same place). Read the meter, and try the other red wire--
You can not "see" if a contact is making GOOD contact on the slip rings--you must use the meter--the same as above--touch the two leads together, and see what it reads, then touch the slip ring with one lead and the contact blade that should be contacting it --up where the wires are soldered. If "good", it will read the same as when you touched the leads together--
Ron
Rich

Jason,
I sure do not know what you mean by the "brass piece that touches the connector--------"that you "cleaned" (how?)--
And "tape"--why is tape on those wires ? Did someone change that coil in the past, All wires should be soldered to a connector-- --just remove it, you can always put new on, if needed---
Ron Rich

ron,

i have attached an image showing you what i cleaned. it's from the parts catalog diagram of the read-out carriage.

the tape i mentioned is wrapped around all the coils and it looks like it is factory. it's a paper based tape.

the only thing i was really not able to confirm is if the coil is working, as i don't know where to place the pins from the ohm meter to see if it is making contact.

all the solders look good to me.

i have also included some other photos as well.

if i can test the coil and have it fail, i think this part is solved.

thanks again for help and advice,
jason

i didn't see that you had typed two messages. i will try that shortly. thanks.

Jason,
Do NOT remove the tape around the coil body !! That is "factory applied" -- I wrongly assumed you had tape on the wire leads coming out of the coils----follow the two wires down to the ( soldered) connection points on the contact blades--
Also--NEVER use "steel wool" ANYWHERE near a jukebox--or anything else "electrical", as it WILL short something out !
Ron Rich

ron, i tested the coil to the solder on the wiper arms and it was a-ok for the B side, but for the A-side, it was sort of hit or miss.

i had to get the ohm meter tester inside the tape and it worked sometimes, but others not. i fear that the wires inside may've come loose at some point.

i peeled back the tape just enough to see what was happening and it "appears" that the red wire may've come loose from the tiny green wire inside the tape that surrounds the coil. i wrapped it back together tightly with another piece of wire and taped it back up, but the same results.

i wonder, do the red and black wires that lead into the coil need to remain separate or be touching?

i would assume they need to NOT touch, but i can't really tell unless i remove the tape from the good coil, which i don't want to do.

do you know if i can order a new coil, and if so, from where?

this is beginning to drive me crazy

thanks,
jason

alternatively, would it be possible to ship you the carriage arm for repair? and if so, what do you think it would cost?

Jason,
Contact me at ronnnrich@yahoo.com
Ron Rich