69 Seeburg SS160 Fuse Blows

I have recently bought a1969 Seeburg SS160 needing repair. The man who sold it said it had an electrical fault when he bought it but he never found how to fix it, so no-one to ask there!
It blew the main 3.15A (3.2A) incoming fuse, so I bought a manual online, then I unplugged all the modules and plugged in one by one until the fuse blew. this led me to:-
-I have replaced the pricing unit (the old one had missing parts and bare wire ends shorting) This now accepts and racks up credit from coins put in the slot
-I have re- capped the ASU Auto Speed Unit
-The Select-o-matic switch mechanism now works and if there is credit the letter buttons "Latch" until the number buttons are pressed, so some bits now work....
-I have re connected the Tormat wire to the phono connector of the Solid State control centre (wire was ripped off I presume by someone pulling the unit out)
(my unit does not have a Stepper Unit)

- now the fuse does not blow UNTIL the Service Switch is moved from "Off" to "Scan" or "Play"

I have checked that the motor / carriage does move if you manually rotate the motor shaft, but I have not yet had the pleasure of seeing the carriage move or anything mechanically move or operate of its own accord

Any ideas would be gratefully received, I was hoping to have it going for new years eve!!!

Happy New Year in advance from Kevin SS160UK

I assume from your name post that you are in the UK--wish all would post that info in your "profile" so it always shows up-
Blowing the main fuse, ( which is 6-1/4 amp in countries with "117" vac service--3.2 amp in areas with "220" service) when the service switch is moved to "scan", indicates that the main service is "shorted" going to the mechanism motor. This is common on units that have been transported without the proper shipping bolts installed, as the mech has probably been forced down past the reversing stop on one end or the other, causing too much pressure on that switch. Examine the reversing switch carefully--with the power OFF. You will probably see that one of the blades has broken off right at the point it comes out of the phenolic.
In the best case, you will find that two or more of the blades have "welded" themselves together. If that has happened, and there is enough silver left on the contact(s), it can be saved. If neither of the above has happened, either the motor, or motor cap, or wires leading to either are shorted to ground ( earth to you guy's across the pond !). HTH. and Happy New year to all! Ron Rich

Thank you for such a quick response Ron.

Yes I am in the UK - England on 230V (my jukebox name plate says 235V 50Hz), and the and this info is very helpful. (- As you say, the manual I have is for an American 117V unit showing a 6 1/4 a fuse in the same place)

I wound the motor shaft manually to move the carriage off the left hand stop position, and looked at my reversing switch contacts - they look as if they are all OK, the contacts are definatley all clicking open/closed when switch tripped one way, and the other ones open/closed when tripped the other way. (it is hard to see the top of these where the spring latch parts cover the left hand contact)

I had obtained a secondhand motor capacitor which tested OK and have installed this, but fuse still blew.

As diagnosing the motor looks hard (hard to take out) i am trying to check all other options first.
- I unplugged the clear / white 2-pole J1107/P1107 (110V?) plug on the carriage (located above the reversing switch, below the front of the motor capacitor.

I also followed the manuals fault finding guide from the service switch - this refers to contacts 2E2 in the SCC3 control center. I noted that 2E1 contact was made when 2E2 was not quite, so adjusted as the manual says - don't know if that has done anything?

- now the fuse does not blow . Now when I press the service switch to Scan or play the fuse still remains OK but obviously nothing moves still.

On re- connecting the J1107/P1107 plug on the carriage, the fuse blows again, so I guess this points to a fault in the Carriage Unit as you said, and I need to take out the carriage and have a proper look on the bench tomorrow morning.
could I ask - Is it easier to take just the carriage off - or - all of the record holder/base/Tormat unit?

Also, is there any near equivalent synthetic motor or silicon oil that could be used to lubricate the carriage, i have not got to that yet, but shipping cost of a specialist Juke Box oil from the USA seems expensive

Thanks again for your assistance

Kevin - SS160UK

Kevin,
The mechanism need not be taken apart ! Look at the Installation and operation guide, and it will tell you how to slide the mechanism out of the rear far enough to inspect the reversing switch. Once you have it back, go through the front "inspection panel" to look at the switch, If necessary, use a mirror.Take a small thin screwdriver blade and GENTLY attempt move each blade, in both directions, at the "top" of each one. If one ( or more) moves--it's broken. If all are OK, check the "action" of the blades by slowly moving the "tie bar". Each set MUST open prior to the other side closing, and the contacts themselves must be free of "pits". The end of stroke ( looks like an upside-down "V") must be adjusted to the minimum gap possible, that still allows the switch to flip. If you have a large square resistor on that mechanism, that is connected to the motor cap, make sure that neither side is touching "earth", as that will blow the fuse--
On oil--I strongly suggest that only a "SAE 20 wt. ND motor oil" be used--Grease is not needed unless you first remove ALL of the old stuff, then I suggest a moly-graph grease be used. If you can not obtain the oil there, contact me off list and I can purchase a couple of 3 OZ cans for you here--they cost about $5.00 each USD. Ron Rich

Thanks Ron -
I have slid the mechanism right out and had a very close look at all the wires leading from the 110v plug at the head, the contacts are next in line and very close inspection showed that the contact coming down between IM7 and IM8 is definatley broken at the top as you suggested. I have removed it and the fuse now does not blow.

So my next job will be to make a new contact, to start with i will try to pinch a similar one from my old UDPU and make one, hope I can just loosen the screws and slide it in, clamping it in place by tightening the screws.

- It could be working by new years eve!

thanks again!

Happy New Year Ron.

Kevin SS160UK

Kevin,
Glad you found it ! If not a center blade, with double sided contacts, you can "pinch one" and slide it in with a little patience.
I have done so, way too many times !! Be sure to check the inverted "V" adjustments, and set them to the minimal amount required to "flip" that switch. You might also check that the motor condenser "add" contact, is operating as it should. Ron Rich

Wow, Thanks to your amazing knowledge and help Ron I am pleased to announce that I have now seen the carriage scan AND PLAY ITS FIRST RECORD (first for over 5 years and 3 owners I think!!!)



I noted it first "played" where there was no record, I moved the tone arm to record centre position, it moved on one, and same again. I put a record in the same slot and to get it to start i had to trip the carriage return switch, as the mechanism seemed to choose its own record position Q1

It looks like a little bit more snagging will be needed - the mechanism stopped after playing, and scanned a few times each ways, and now has stopped.

I'll have a look at the manual , and guess the Tormat Contacts may need cleaning? - should the mechanism park anywhere special if no records selected? or does it need "zero'ing" adjustments in a certain place?

Thanks again Ron!! - looks like i could have music for new year!

Kevin ss160uk

Kevin,
Mech coasts to a stop--'splains zit in the Service Manual---and more completely in my Seeburg Mechanism Guide.
Ron Rich

I would like to buy your Seeburg Mechanism guide Ron - it would be invaluable, can I get one by ordering from you or an agent (such as ebay?)?

I have now let my machine play itself through and realise that the Tormat must have kept its memory of numerous selections i had made before it was working.

- She now plays records to order (B sides only at present B1 D1 F1 etc play correctly - A side selections plays B side backwards - presume because tone arm is on the wrong side of the record) so must just need a tone arm adjustment?

-One other minor problem seems to be either the Add or Subtract solenoid starts to hum quite loudly after a while, i guess may cause it to overheat - any ideas here?

Meanwhile after your assistance I can at least load my records back to front and play them for my new years eve party.

Happy New Year

Kevin ss160uk

Contact me via PM to purchase a copy of my Seeburg Mechanism Guide"--
You will need to look and see which coil is staying energized--neither should--I suspect the subtract coil is it--and I suspect that the phono has been transported on it's back at sometime or another, with out the proper shipping materials installed, and you will find that the scan subtract contacts that ride way below the Tormat are bent closed--find this problem before the coil burns up !!!
As for the tone arm--you guessed it--it is not shifting--usually due to use of improper, or lack of oil--flood it with SAE 20 wt. ND oil-- Ron Rich

I took a photo of the broken contact for others to see if they are looking for the same fault. As Ron says - look closely, from below if possible, as they all seem to work OK but you can see the contact broken at the top and is not "sprung" like the others but still straight and laying at an angle shorting both Live & Neutral contacts.

Kevin (ss160uk)