3WD wall box to a 443 Rok-ola.

Hello everyone. I was wondering if it is possible to run a 3wd seeburg 100 sel wallbox of my 443 100 sel jukebox, and if so what do I need in terms of equipment. Thanks.

Hi
I am nearly sure for a 100 selection 443 you need the stepper or also known as receiver- model number 1767, the receiver 1769 is more commonly available, don't know whether the 1769 can be adapted for it. Also the seeburg wallbox will work with the rockola. The receiver is mounted inside the jukebox and the wallbox is wired up to the jukebox via the terminal that can be accessed through the back panel
clones

Thanks for the info. I am having a hard time finding a 1767. You mentioned 1769 but how does it need to be modified?

Hi
To be honest I am not sure if the 1769 can be modified for the 1767
clones

There's a 1768 stepper on Ebay. Seller says it's for interfacing Seeburg wallboxes to Rockola jukeboxes. Not sure if your 443 is compatible with the 1768, tho. If it all fits correctly, it could eliminate a lot of headaches for you.

-Jim

Hi
Yes the 1768 stepper will work with the 443
regards
clones

Thank you everyone. I got lucky and picked up a 1767 in immaculate order. Hooked up the wires to a Jones plug but nothing happens. I even tried using a remote power source with it. The wall box lights up and makes a selection fine. Just the jukebox does not respond.

Unfortunately, steppers are intricate electro-mechanical devices and you can't just drop it in place and expect it to work if it hasn't been -properly- restored. Those later steppers added a small transistor circuit to improve the sensitivity to pulses from the wallbox.

Test by tapping the signal line from the stepper to the ground wire from the same 3 wire cable. you should hear some clicking in the stepper box.

The big problem with these old Guardian made steppers is that they, like Rowe of the same era, used plastic stepping gears to quiet the noise. However in all cases these gears swell, crack and become too large to turn in their shaft.

The original gears were white and after problems emerged a replacement gear which was black and different composition was offered. those too developed the same problem over time. I have two of the Rowe CGA steppers with the same stepping mechanism as yours and the same problem has occurred in service.

The solution I used was to remove the stepper wafer and gear assembly (easy), then remove the stepping gear, place the shaft in a drill and slowly-carefully using a small file and slow drill speed, I file down the area of plastic where the crack has occurred just to the point where it turns freely when placed back in the assembly.

In taking the assembly apart, you'll note the spring that returns each stepper wheel to 'home". Be careful not to stretch it.

So, first check that there is any action in the stepper box when grounding the signal line momentarily, that will confirm that the signal circuit is Ok. Then check that the wheels are able to turn freely -this is where you find the most likely problem.

Rob/NYC

Ok, thanks, will do first thing tomorrow. It might be a stupid question, but I'll ask it. There is a male jones plug with a single green wire hooked up the middle tooth. On the side of the stepper there is a female receiver plug. Is this where I hook up the jones plug from the 3w1 and is the order of "blue/orange/green" the same on the 1767 stepper?

Rob,
The problem with the "white" step-up wheels on Seeburgs, was totally solved with the black replacement wheels. This problem developed as Guardian fused the "white nylon" directly to the aluminum shafts. Well, what they did not take into account is the metal expands at a different rate then the "nylon"--thus expanding/splitting the nylon. The black wheels are independent of the shaft, and it can expand all it "wants to", without affecting the nylon. I ASSUME, but don't know, if the "fix" was the same for other jukebox brands, as I have never worked on any-- Ron Rich

Ron, the black gears offered for the Rowe-Guardian do shrink and crack, it just take longer than the white originals. I did have this problem on a 1966 seeburg stepper w/black gears. In that case I replaced the gear and wiper assembly with an older metal type.

One ongoing problem with metal gears is wear of the teeth which causes gradually increasing backlash to the point where it can no longer be compensated within the wafer's shifting allowance. In one severe case it got to the point where you could turn the wafer so that the wiper actually landed on the previous contact. For that case I simply resoldered all the wires (letter) back one rivet.

Overall, I prefer the design Rowe and Rockola used. Better clapper design, larger assemblies and easy to bring back into alignment after service.

Rob

roadwarrior wrote:Ok, thanks, will do first thing tomorrow. It might be a stupid question, but I'll ask it. There is a male jones plug with a single green wire hooked up the middle tooth. On the side of the stepper there is a female receiver plug. Is this where I hook up the jones plug from the 3w1 and is the order of "blue/orange/green" the same on the 1767 stepper?

I'm sorry, I don't have enough experience with the R-O steppers. The color coding should be the same. Anyway, it is easy to find out. To determine the AC lead (probably orange) connect one lead of an AC meter to the chassis and test for approx 25 VAC.

The signal (probably blue) will have some low-DC voltage referenced to Chassis as well.

Rob

I am grateful for all the tips and advice you gentlemen have given. As a noobie, the last thing I want is to damage my machines. I am going to try all the tips and will let you know how it went. Once again, thank you.

On a happy note, I just finished cleaning and checking my "new" 1969 Seeburg LS2 Gem that I picked up two weeks ago, and not only does everything work great, but I found a remote in the coin box for the volume and eject and hooked it up. Bonus!

Hi Road Warrior,
WARNING:
DO NOT press the button, on that remote control head if it says "EJECT"--It gets real "nasty" when a phono "ejects" records ! !!! Ron Rich